Opinions on this Gestalt Wizard build? (3.5)

[Rebel7284]

Banning evocation is easy.  Shadow conjuration can replicate it completely in the FEW cases it's needed.  Other schools have enough large area spells or other tricks that can blast better anyway.

[Mixster]

You can always do almost anything you would be able to do with evocation if you use Conjuration and Transmutation. That also pretty much applies to enchantment, except for the nice I now control your mind spells, but those aren't the top of the pop.

If you are going into IotSV I'd consider a dip in Master Specialist PrC since it gives you a good deal of the pre-reqs.

Also while Incantatrix is cool, it is mostly the capstone which is the sweetest in there, Mr. IotSV can do a lot with his first few veils. So I think it is personal preference which of them you prefer.

[KaizokuVizard]

doesn't master specialist require you to ban 3 schools?  lol, If I'm having an issue banning 1, i doubt I could ever ban 3....

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

...I think the OP is highly undervaluing familiars...

You said it. Take a look at this, maybe you''ll change your mind.

[Rebel7284]

doesn't master specialist require you to ban 3 schools?  lol, If I'm having an issue banning 1, i doubt I could ever ban 3....

That's focused specialist.  Master Specialist is a mid-powered prestige class that gives you a few free feats that help qualify for IoSV.  However, considering your PrC rules, it's suboptimal for you.

[Widow]

I have a few suggestions, but more along the lines of your original stipulations.

First off, if you are going to go wizard and take a PrC that advances spell casting, why not take 1 level in another spell casting class to progress.  You still won't get xp penalties.

Wizard 5//Rogue 2/Fighter 2/Wu gen 1 (bonus metamagic feat but you can pick whatever arcane class).

Venturing a little further away, you could instead stick with the sneaky and take some human paragon levels.  Human paragon will still net you one bonus feat, plus give you a nice +2 to your Int.

Wizard 5//Spell Thief 2/Human Paragon 3

Spell thief is great if master spell thief feat is allowed, neating you alot of sneak attack and augmented spell caster level.  Either of the above opitions would still allow you to enter your original PrC ideas.

A PrC I might suggest if you are going for the pure wizard is the Eldrich Master from magazine #280.  It grants:

1) Add its level to your arcane caster level to determine spell effects (does not increase caster level, but functions as if it was higher)
2) Bonus Metamagic Feat ever 3 levels
3) You gain a spell slot 1 level higher than you can currently cast every 3 levels (great for epic progression)
4) Every 4 levels you get to add another classes spell list to your own.  Be a wizard, but have bard/cleric/druid/whatever spells on your list too.
5) At level 10, you know when someone says your name on the same plane.

It does not progress your spell casting.  In your original build I would replace the 4 mindbender levels with this class and then switch into IosTV.  The best number of levels to take of EM is 12 once you are epic since that pairs up all the nice every 3 and every 4 level abilities.  I really like the class and often use it in gestalt games where we are only allowed one spell casting class.  It keeps the feel of the original class, you just get more spell options (most fun with a beguiler who automatically knows all the spells on its list and can cast them spontaneously).

The other posters have already covered most of the power builds that deviate from your original greatly.  The only thing I would point out is if you go Dweomerkeeper with alternative sourced spell and DMM, you can easily qualify for Heirophant later for 5 bonus metamagic feats since you are very feat focused.

[KaizokuVizard]

With the arguments i'm seeing here & at a few other places I've looked at, I think the prestige class rules are going to change.  (Helps that i'm also DMing the campaign so I can readjust rules when someone points out I'm being a moron)

[Dictum Mortuum]

...I think the OP is highly undervaluing familiars...

You said it. Take a look at this, maybe you''ll change your mind.

I'm flattered

[Endarire]

I was once a gestalt Wizard//Artificer.  I regret not going Wizard//Warblade for the extra HP and save swap maneuvers.

I rolled a natural 1 on a dominate effect.  The party found me in a helpless position and killed me.  The campaign ended soon after.

[KaizokuVizard]

Eldritch Master does sound good, I will have to see if I have 280 somewhere around here....

[KaizokuVizard]

Ok, so i were to change to Specialist (master specialist)  I have to ban two classes.  Do I spec in Abjuration, Conjuration, or Transmutation?  And I give up what Evocation and Enchantment?  And if I take Incanatrix i have to ban a third one, right?  So, 3 banned schools?  I don't know...It seems like I'm giving up too much, for too little gain, in that case.

If I just did one or the other, I can see the benefits.  I honestly forgot about the shadow evocation thing.

[X-Codes]

Before Pun-Pun, the most powerful Wizard was a Specialist Wizard/Incantatrix with optimized Spellcraft.  It didn't even really matter what kind of specialist Wizard, either, because whatever you specialized in you became DAMN good at and you had enough other toys to deal with stuff that wasn't affected by your primary shtick.

If giving up another school of magic really bugs you that much, crack Lost Empires of Faerun.  For 3 feats you can un-forbid a school of magic.  Add those to Incantatrix's pre-requisites and the class becomes feat-neutral.  My recommendation in this case is to start the game with Necromancy and Enchantment prohibited, prohibit Evocation with Incantatrix (you will still be able to cast the Evocation spells you learned before entering the class, and scorching ray is prime metamagic fodder), and then un-prohibit Necromancy to get all of the late-game toys that come with that school of magic.

EDIT: By the way, doesn't Epic Incantatrix get a bonus feat every 2 levels in addition to it's free metamagic, too?

[emaNsdrawkcaB]

Class features are better than feats.  This is why wizards > fighters

It's true.
But if you REALLY like feats, have this on one side of the build. Leadership yourself a Dweomerkeeper to DCFS you until you have all the feats you want.

I'm flattered

No doubt, it's a useful resource.

An interesting idea would be to play a Dwarven Sorcerer 9/ Mindbender 1/ Incantatrix 10/ Epic Incantatrix... // Incarnate 20/ Marshal 1/ Epic Incarnate...

- Focus Con and Cha

- Dwarves without Cha penalty:
Desert Dwarf: -2 Dex +2 Con, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf), unearthed arcana pg.11
Dream Dwarf: -2 Dex +2 Con, medium, 20 ft., Dream sight (su), druid, humanoid (dwarf), races of stone pg.88
Gold Dwarf: +2 Con -2 Dex, medium, 20 ft., fighter, humanoid (dwarf), dungeon master's guide pg.171
Korobokuru: +2 Con -2 Int, small, 20 ft., barbarian, humanoid (dwarf), oriental adventures pg.12

- Dwarven Sorcerer Racial Sub. at 5th and most importantly 9th (Add Con to Cha to determine spells per day [which for an Incantatrix will be huge with an Extended Persisted Shapchange into a Con machine])

- By staggering your levels of epic Incantatrix and Incarnate you'll be getting an epic feat every level, as well as bonus metamagic feats. FEATS!
EDIT: Kell cleared up the Incantatrix''s epic level feat confusion. Still, might be a fun idea. Would you even need to stagger the feats to gain them on both sides?

Plenty of synergy and epic feats. How OP do you want to be with your friend lacking in the optimization department?


EDIT: Hell if you plan on being Good, you may as well grab VoP, as many of your slots will be used, and you''ll get MORE FEATS!

[KellKheraptis]

EDIT: By the way, doesn't Epic Incantatrix get a bonus feat every 2 levels in addition to it's free metamagic, too?

Every 3, because they get an additional use of Instant Metamagic every 2

[KaizokuVizard]

I feel like I'm trying to cram too much in now...level 38 and no epic levels yet, from what people have told me I've got:

Wizard3,Human Paragon 2, Mindbender 1, Wizard 1, Eldritch 2, IotSV 7, Eldritch 1, Wizard 1, Eldritch 2, Incanatrix 10, Fatespinner 4, Wizard 1

? 2, Human paragon 1, ? 3, Eldritch 1, ? 10, Eldritch 1, ? 2, Eldritch 8, ? 16, Fatespinner 1

I need to drop at least one of them...probably Fatespinner...

Eldritch Master 5 gives me Cleric, 10 Druid.  I don't think there's any other spell lists particularaly worth taking (If i'm wrong, do tell me)  So then I'd want to Epic Level the Incanatrix...i swear i'm spelling that wrong.  Maybe I should drop IotSV?  I really liked the warding idea...but perhaps Incanatrix + Scorching Ray is better...

[X-Codes]

I feel like I'm trying to cram too much in now...level 38 and no epic levels yet, from what people have told me I've got:

Just now realizing it?

Nobody here has been suggesting additions.  Pick 1 or 2 PrCs and get as much of them as you can in pre-epic.  Only then do you take one of them epic.

[KaizokuVizard]

Yeah, sometimes I'm a bit slow on things. lol  but at least I can admit it

[KellKheraptis]

There is always Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/SCM 5/Rest Inca||Cleric all the way up, with Initiate of Mystra as suggested.  The height of automatic cantrip Shadow Miracles, all castable in an AMF.

[KaizokuVizard]

Ok, I think i've got it, but I need an opinion on this final "trick"

It ends up with 10 eldricth, 13 incantatrix.  the other side is still a ? (Going to need something with sneak attack)

Then I pick up 5 levels of Spellwarp Sniper.  The Greater Fireburst spell (From the Spell Compendium) qualifies for the spellwarp ability...

So it's a ray that deals 15d10 (of Fire)
If I use my metamagic feats, and do say...intensify, now it's 300...split ray (Since it's a ray now) means 600, twinned means 1200, energy admixture means 2400....and repeated the next round = 4800 total damage, from a level 5 spell? (or 6, or whatever it ends up being with the imp metamagic & Incantatrix abilities)  That sounds...ridiculous?

[Epimetheus]

4. IoSV is good, but not as amazing as you seem to think.  Both Incantatrix and Dweomerkeeper are WAY above it AND incantatrix gives a bonus metamagic feat every 4 levels.  

Well... that depends on how you interpret it. If the veils both protect your spells from being supressed by an AMF, but still allow you to cast inside of one, that cranks it up a few notches... and I think that both RAW and RAI that's what happens, per the RC "nerf" on AMF not blocking LoE. An Iot7V could stand inside an AMF and lob spells out of it, all the while still benefiting from his own buffs. The AMF would have to be centered on someone else, but Shapechange cast on a familiar to turn it into a beholder takes care of that. The familiar-beholder hovers behind you (invisibly, probably) with its big AMF eye cone pointed at you, and your enemy. So you're invulnerable to his spells, his buffs are suppressed, and you can destroy him with Orb spells, or whatever.

And just because of tricks like that, I think the OP is highly undervaluing familiars...

That's a decent idea, that I'd never really considered.  Also, as for Incanatrix...i don't know how much the idea of banning a school appeals to me.  Then again, Necromancy doesn't have many good spells, and neither does Evocation.  Though Evocation is very useful in terms of army destruction, and necromancy gives me army of undead + the slay seed at epic levels.  Never ban Divination, Conjuration, or Transmutation.  Can't ban Abjuration, leaving Illusion, Enchantment, Evocation and Necromancy.  Illusion doesn't seem like a good thing to ban, leaving the other 3...maybe Enchantment?  Not sure.  Enchantment has the afflict seed...Illusion the Conceal seed...(See this is why i don't ban schools, I invariably want what I've banned.)

Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation could just about replace the corresponding schools. Downside: extra will save, always SR, higher spell slot used. Upside: Any of the relevant spells spontaneously, std action casting time, same duration, and no components.