Help with mid-level Cleric from highly restricted book list

[Rutibex]

Are you allowed to be a double caster with this?  If so being a Cleric with Sorcerer spells -2 would be plenty powerful just off the hop.  If your DM is sane and only gives out the bonus spells to non-casters then i would go with a Warblade from ToB and grab Cleric for extra buffing (in full plate).

Honestly though it sounds like your DM is being quite generous, I would feel kind of cheap coming to the table with a fully munchkinized character when he's already giving you free XP for LA buy-off and spellcasting. 

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I'd pick bard; bard list + sorc spells known/per day seems really cool.

Casting in light armor with that - yes/no? 

[Rutibex]

I'd pick bard; bard list + sorc spells known/per day seems really cool.

Casting in light armor with that - yes/no?  

At 16th level he would end up getting 7th level spells, except Bards don't have those.  I suppose he could use the slots for metamagic but it seems like long term he would be kicking himself.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

It'd be more like level 16 (since it's sorc -2).  Metamagiced irresistible dance is cool.

[Zebu]

Are you allowed to be a double caster with this?  If so being a Cleric with Sorcerer spells -2 would be plenty powerful just off the hop.  If your DM is sane and only gives out the bonus spells to non-casters then i would go with a Warblade from ToB and grab Cleric for extra buffing (in full plate).

Yep, casters also get the bonus casting.  Which'll be interesting, since I've only used the sorcerer/wizard spell list once before.

Honestly though it sounds like your DM is being quite generous, I would feel kind of cheap coming to the table with a fully munchkinized character when he's already giving you free XP for LA buy-off and spellcasting. 

I'm looking for "can square off against a dragon."  The full munchkin treatment, with Complete Divine and such, is the other forum, right?

I'd pick bard; bard list + sorc spells known/per day seems really cool.

I'd just automatically gone for the Sorcerer list...  When you praise the bard spells, you're thinking of ones from the books I actually have access to, I presume, but...  Bless me if I know where to start.  What would a tenth-level sorcerer working off the bard list look like?  I mean, they do get Irresistible Dance two levels early, but the Druid list gets access to that spell at sixth level, too, and it comes with a pixie attached.  Of course, this isn't the first time I've completely missed something.

Casting in light armor with that - yes/no?

Nope.  All of the casting rules are like a sorcerer (including spontaneity and metamagic delay) except for the base stat.  One of the reasons why I'm probably going Monk's Belt instead of armor.

[Rutibex]

It'd be more like level 16 (since it's sorc -2).  Metamagiced irresistible dance is cool.

Dang your quick, I caught that seconds after posting it 

Yeah I agree Bard spells as a sorcerer -2 would be very neat to play with and that's what I would do if I was in the OPs shoes.  I just felt I would be remiss in not mentioning that he would be missing out on 7th 8th and 9th level spells, this is an optimization board after all.

I say go with a Pixie (without the irresistible dance) Rogue with Bard casting.  Complete scoundrel as your supplement.  The tomfoolery you could get up to would be epic and it wouldn't look munchkin at all. 

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Irresistible dance is a "dodge or die".  Casting it 5+ times per day on a character with a high attack bonus is pure awesome (since if you miss on a touch spell you hold the charge).

Also, take a look at dark way (spell compendium).  It's wall of force, except smaller, second level and at an angle.

[Zebu]

I say go with a Pixie (without the irresistible dance) Rogue with Bard casting.  Complete scoundrel as your supplement.  The tomfoolery you could get up to would be epic and it wouldn't look munchkin at all. 

That's actually very tempting.  But, as (I think) I mentioned, I'm the only person who picked a base casting class in a party of 8.  I know we've already got a rogue/something, and I think we have a ninja and a very roguelike archer.

Though a pixie would be cool.  Is there a way to build it to make it different from everyone else?

Irresistible dance is a "dodge or die".  Casting it 5+ times per day on a character with a high attack bonus is pure awesome (since if you miss on a touch spell you hold the charge).

Also, take a look at dark way (spell compendium).  It's wall of force, except smaller, second level and at an angle.

And now I realize dance isn't available for two levels.  Even if it does create a really funny mental image.  I wonder how many times I could do that to the main boss before the GM started giving them all Greater Spell Immunity... 

Yes, dark way is pretty neat.  It's on everybody's list but the druid's, though, so not really a deal shifter in any direction.


Anyways-- -is- a kobold still worthwhile when it's not getting +3 to all mental stats and +1 to sorcerer level?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Not so much.  Qualifying for Singer of Concordance at second level is neat and everything, and there's a handful of other tricks you can pull off with the "dragon grandfather" clause, but nothing that's good that isn't purely theoretical, and nothing that isn't purely theoretical that's good.

[Zebu]

Ah, yeah.  The GM's actually ruled that "dragons qualify" means "dragons fulfill the dragonblood requirement."  So no early Concordance.  I'm thinking I need to pick a different book.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Well, it's against the intent (since otherwise true dragons can't qualify for the prestige class with their racial spellcasting, even though it says they can).  I think your DM dislikes kobolds.


Anyways, yeah, a different book seems warranted.  I'd be really tempted to go cha-focused melee + bardorcerer.  Maybe crusader?  Crusader/paladin dip?  Something like that.

Honestly the bard list isn't really that bad with the limited books available. You get greater dispel and dominate person at a level lower, can cast Freedom of Movement (which sor/wiz can't) and glibness alone is awesome in a can if you want to do social stuff ("did you just cast a spell right in front of me?" "No.").  The self-buffs are pretty decent too (heroism as a second level spell, greater heroism as a fifth), and improvisation is one of the most-snagged spells.

Sure, you ain't getting telekinesis, but you'll have cool tricks enough

I'm sure you can work something out with your DM if running out of the bard spell list becomes an issue four levels later.