Author Topic: Optimizing [Cold]  (Read 5113 times)

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SorO_Lost

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Re: Optimizing [Cold]
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2010, 12:50:50 PM »
Hey, my kind of thread. Here is yet another version of a cold caster off the top of my head.

Dragonborn Something Wizard 5 / Stormcaster 5 / Recaster 2 / Whatever 5 / Recaster 3
1: Snowcasting, Frozen Magic, Dragonic Heritage(crystal)
3: Draconic Aura(energy)
5: Energy Substitution(electricity)
6: Born Of Three Thunders
9: Maximize Spell
12: Craft Contingency
15: Iron Will
18: Reserves of Strength
Reorganize by preference. Wear Icemail Armor.

Hire a cleric to craft a runestaff with Fire Shuriken(SpC), Arcane Fusion(CM) & of course Cold Snap(FB) via AnySpell or something. Use Craft Contingency set up Cold Snap to cast when you make an ice or cold based pun and do the same with the spell Contingency but for Control Temperature.

You can use either precrafted Snowcast Energy Substitution(electricity) Born Of Three Thunders Fire Shurikens for a quadruple save or suck effect, deafened, prone, stunned, or stunned again all of which benefit from +6 to the save DC. Should you desire a bigger boom, tell them revenge is best served cold or something then hit them with your choice of blasting spell. All of your spells have +3 damage per die, +2 damage per spell level, fort vs stun, and +6 to save DCs. You also can use Maximize five times a day for free and never need to carry snow. Area effects work best since you can also alter the shape of your spell. Oh and I almost forgot, Greater Arcane Fusion is on your spell list.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

KellKheraptis

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Re: Optimizing [Cold]
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2010, 12:58:56 PM »
Hey, my kind of thread. Here is yet another version of a cold caster off the top of my head.

Dragonborn Something Wizard 5 / Stormcaster 5 / Recaster 2 / Whatever 5 / Recaster 3
1: Snowcasting, Frozen Magic, Dragonic Heritage(crystal)
3: Draconic Aura(energy)
5: Energy Substitution(electricity)
6: Born Of Three Thunders
9: Maximize Spell
12: Craft Contingency
15: Iron Will
18: Reserves of Strength
Reorganize by preference. Wear Icemail Armor.

Hire a cleric to craft a runestaff with Fire Shuriken(SpC), Arcane Fusion(CM) & of course Cold Snap(FB) via AnySpell or something. Use Craft Contingency set up Cold Snap to cast when you make an ice or cold based pun and do the same with the spell Contingency but for Control Temperature.

You can use either precrafted Snowcast Energy Substitution(electricity) Born Of Three Thunders Fire Shurikens for a quadruple save or suck effect, deafened, prone, stunned, or stunned again all of which benefit from +6 to the save DC. Should you desire a bigger boom, tell them revenge is best served cold or something then hit them with your choice of blasting spell. All of your spells have +3 damage per die, +2 damage per spell level, fort vs stun, and +6 to save DCs. You also can use Maximize five times a day for free and never need to carry snow. Area effects work best since you can also alter the shape of your spell. Oh and I almost forgot, Greater Arcane Fusion is on your spell list.


Blasting with crowd control, sexy!  The irony is that the inspiration was Mephistopheles becoming so pissed off at being stuck in a cold plain he invented hellfire (i.e. typeless damage).  I'll have to look at Fire Shurikens again...I remember it being mediocre in 2nd Ed and never gave it a second glance (unless you're a Shinobi Mage that is) :P  And from looking at that layout, it's all of what, 1 feat shy of an LCB?  Also, why Crystal Dragon for the Draconic Heritage?

EDIT : Holy SHIT!  Fire Shurikens stick around after you cast the spell!!!  Can you say TK of DEATH when you fling all (CL) of them at once after they've been metamagicked to 11 with whatever the spell equivalent to Dissolving Weapon is?  Ouch...

EDIT #2 : And then enlarge them...3d6 enlarged from Fine to Colossal...with ability to stockpile the damn things as needed :D  That's what, 8 size increases?  3d6~>3d8~>6d6~>8d6~>12d6~>16d6~>24d6~>32d6! per shuriken.  Now empowered at casting/creation.  +2 damage per die since it's still a cold spell.  48d6+96x15 flung with TK (CL for TK will be well over 15 at level 9) for average damage to a single target of 3600.  Goodbye, whatever you are!  And it's not a ray, either, so no deflecting it, and it's no longer a spell, so no Globe to hide behind.  Oh, and since it's Instantaneous, no AMF cover either.  Thanks, Sol0, this just might be my blast of choice :evil
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 01:37:07 PM by KellKheraptis »
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Optimizing [Cold]
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2010, 09:18:21 PM »
Blasting with crowd control, sexy!
I love the stunned state :)

Also, why Crystal Dragon for the Draconic Heritage?
None really.  Had you been a sorcerer the skill add on would have been a difference.
White: Hide
Silver: Disguise
Crystal: Diplomacy

Thanks, Sol0, this just might be my blast of choice :evil
Sol0? Is that some sort of Solo & SorO fusion?
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Prime32

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Re: Optimizing [Cold]
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2010, 10:55:46 PM »
Sol0? Is that some sort of Solo & SorO fusion?
I find this concept vaguely frightening.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Unbeliever

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Re: Optimizing [Cold]
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2010, 02:16:59 AM »
...
EDIT : Holy SHIT!  Fire Shurikens stick around after you cast the spell!!!  Can you say TK of DEATH when you fling all (CL) of them at once after they've been metamagicked to 11 with whatever the spell equivalent to Dissolving Weapon is?  Ouch...
...
Spell Compendium version says that they disappear once they hit, though I guess it'd still be useful as a nova effect.  Or, you could just store up a lot of them I suppose ...

raith0

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Re: Optimizing [Cold]
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2010, 11:23:31 AM »
dont forget the eshew materials cold spell  cold focus/greater cold focus from frostfell an additional free +2 caster level and DC that stacks with others for a bit extra uumph

KellKheraptis

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Re: Optimizing [Cold]
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2010, 01:36:51 PM »
Ok, refocusing the build a bit : Sor0's build at the top of this page can achieve scary damage while still playing GOD ; THIS is what I'd like.  Next step : How badly would the build suffer if Recaster were replaced with Spellwarp Sniper and we used a ToAL (which the character already has now) to cover the lost spells, and replaced Stormcaster with Incantatrix (2 metamagic feats, circle magic lite, metamagic effect, and metamagic spell trigger at level 5).  I know the DC boost would drop to +4, and one stunned condition would be lost (and the deafened one as well IIRC Stormsinger), but that's still +4 DC, Stun, and Prone on every spell, not counting any possible side effects.  Would SWS make those automatic from BoTT?
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Unbeliever

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Re: Optimizing [Cold]
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2010, 02:25:58 PM »
I've been considering Spellwarp Sniper recently, too.  Although I've been thinking of a more sneaky one. 

Born of 3 Thunders requires a Fort save, and then a Reflex one.  The most generous treatment of Spellwarp Sniper would let you automatically get them w/ the Ref save if they failed the Fort one, but that is probably pushing it.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Optimizing [Cold]
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2010, 12:30:13 PM »
Ok, refocusing the build a bit : Sor0's build at the top of this page can achieve scary damage while still playing GOD ; THIS is what I'd like.  Next step : How badly would the build suffer if Recaster were replaced with Spellwarp Sniper and we used a ToAL (which the character already has now) to cover the lost spells, and replaced Stormcaster with Incantatrix (2 metamagic feats, circle magic lite, metamagic effect, and metamagic spell trigger at level 5).  I know the DC boost would drop to +4, and one stunned condition would be lost (and the deafened one as well IIRC Stormsinger), but that's still +4 DC, Stun, and Prone on every spell, not counting any possible side effects.  Would SWS make those automatic from BoTT?
Answer: Not giving one. I'll give you a question instead. Does a two feat investment work out for you?

In case you forgot, Bo3T dazes you with each use. Quick Recovery(LoM) and Mark Of The Dauntless(Dragonmarked) are the only things that I know that stop being dazed. MotD is a two feat investment and with those save DC boosters Quick Recovery probably won't cut it.

*

As for dropping Recaster for Incantatrix. *shrug*
Recaster suffers a spell advancement to gain 5/day maximize, 3/day quicken, Eschew Materials, 5/day Sculpt Spell, and of course any two spells you wish are now class spells. Greater Arcane Fusion is a must and you could take Fire Shuriken with the other.

Incantatrix bans an entire school and banning Evocation is no longer a choice and Iron Will (problem considering you need to deal with daze) in exchange for pretty much just Metamagic Effect. The buffs keep you alive longer, but do nothing to increase your blast powers. Don't get me wrong, while attaching Bo3Ts to a Snowcast Flash Frost Permanent Arcane Sight is cool and all you need to consider your party. There isn't very many portable offensive spells outside of Fire Shuriken, which given it's nature you could just hire an Incantarix to help you craft anyway, that won't fry your party. Now consider your role, do you need to be the reason the warblade has Bite Of The Wearbear, or do you need to take levels in something that pertains to your idea of blowing stuff up?

Also I'd recommend hiring a Cleric to Divine Metamagic up a flash Frosted Opalescent Glare, it may take an action but it allows you to talk to people.

*


Spellwarped Sniper sucks. Worst class ever.
Take Ocular Spell. It allows you to store any two nonpersonal spells which automatically become ray spells and both are fired off with the same action.
Basically, you replaced five class levels with one feat, +2d6 damage with x2 damage, and gained the option to Geas people you don't like.

Stormcaster adds the save vs stun effect for free, the PrC it's self does cost a level of spell advancement is it's downside. If Daze immunity isn't feasible you'll have to use it or lose battle control. At least it boosts your effective caster level by 2 and gives you partial resistance to your own spells incase things go south (spell turning or such).
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

KellKheraptis

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Re: Optimizing [Cold]
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2010, 09:04:37 PM »
The one you posted doesn't have MotD, though with precrafted BoTT Fire Shuriken I guess it doesn't need it.  I see the perks of recaster, and they are sexy, to be sure.  With the crowd control available at my level, would losing both caster levels right at 6-7 still be feasible?  With my DC's, even a lowly Web or Grease and that crowd control on it would be a serious threat to level appropriate foes, and I'd have my requisite Eschew Materials to get the Genkidama right on time (mostly).

Going aside from a "cold caster" for a moment (though optimizing [Cold] still seems to be the fastest route to utter bad ass high DC automatic SoL/NSJL), how would that changeling look if he was just set up to fubar enemies?  I.e. the build "GOD was a Mailman."  I'll edit ideas into this post as I get them/eat my pizza until someone replies.
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Optimizing [Cold]
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2010, 01:11:29 AM »
I see the perks of recaster, and they are sexy, to be sure.  With the crowd control available at my level, would losing both caster levels right at 6-7 still be feasible?
A wizard can lose a level and still progress through the game like a sorcerer, which is still game breaking, just slower.

A thing to note, a GOD build can use Bo3Ts Fire Shurikens without level wasting via UMD & Eternal Wands. But since you made the choice to play as a blaster, you have already choose to weaken your self compared to what you could be doing. So as you debate on your build ideas, don't look on what you are missing out on, look at maintaining effectiveness for your level which is more dependent on your party's builds and group play style.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]