Author Topic: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects  (Read 30891 times)

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SorO_Lost

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2010, 02:38:49 AM »
Speaking of Frostburn.

Iceberg
Level: Wiz/Sor 9
Saving Throw: None if within 20ft of the target.
Spell Resistance: Yes, but how the hell does it work?

Iceberg creates a solid chunk of ice above everyone's head and promptly drops it. The crushing weight of it slamming onto you deals 20d6 crushing damage and you are buried in snow. Takes a DC 25 str check (done as a standard action) to free your self. Fast fact - 5x5 cube of snow weighs 500lbs per D&D ruling.

The ice block is mundane, the snow in mundane, gravity cannot be explained, and the spell's duration is instantaneous meaning the blocks are created and no longer any sort of magic. The SR check is stupid, it's like saying SR allows you to fly though snow created by Cold Snap or Control Temperature/Weather. So yeah, posting it anyway.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #61 on: October 29, 2010, 04:12:23 AM »
It's not real snow, apparently.

Or your spell resistance screws up the targeting computer.
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Kajhera

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #62 on: October 29, 2010, 09:44:52 AM »
Anti-optimize your caster level, have SR, and make a habit of casting it on yourself to slam blocks of ice on the surrounding countryside as your targeting constantly goes haywire?

McPoyo

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2010, 10:18:26 AM »
Anti-optimize your caster level, have SR, and make a habit of casting it on yourself to slam blocks of ice on the surrounding countryside as your targeting constantly goes haywire?
unnecessary. You always beat your own SR.
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They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
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wotmaniac

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2010, 10:57:50 AM »
Fast fact - 5x5 cube of snow weighs 500lbs per D&D ruling.
well, according to this, the density of freshly-fallen snow is commonly around 8% of water.  a little quick math tells me that it would be more like 625 lbs (depending on temperature), and gets denser as it encounters sunlight.  .... meh, good enough for D&D.

otherwise, I house-rule that spell to not allow SR (I mean, come on ... it's an element-based direct-damage 9th-level spell with a sometimes reflex save)

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Kajhera

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2010, 12:44:39 PM »
Anti-optimize your caster level, have SR, and make a habit of casting it on yourself to slam blocks of ice on the surrounding countryside as your targeting constantly goes haywire?
unnecessary. You always beat your own SR.
Oh, that's good. Don't have to drop it for a round to buff then. /hasn't played a lot of things with SR.

Nunkuruji

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #66 on: October 29, 2010, 01:01:36 PM »
Iceberg is "elephant-sized", and is essentially a 20ft radius+ chunk of ice with an undefined height. It shatters into enough snow to bury a larger radius. Hard to seriously argue 5x5 weights that much. Have to assume the undefined height makes up the mass to make the snow burial possible.

SR is only there because it is [Evocation] (blehrg)

As a DM I would errata out the SR, and perhaps it should fall under conjuration. Perhaps not... it's not like conjuration needs anymore spells.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #67 on: October 29, 2010, 01:06:48 PM »
Iceberg is "elephant-sized", and is essentially a 20ft radius+ chunk of ice with an undefined height. It shatters into enough snow to bury a larger radius. Hard to seriously argue 5x5 weights that much. Have to assume the undefined height makes up the mass to make the snow burial possible.

SR is only there because it is [Evocation] (blehrg)

As a DM I would errata out the SR, and perhaps it should fall under conjuration. Perhaps not... it's not like conjuration needs anymore spells.
Evocation isn't allowed to have anything nice because WotC hates it while they still want everyone to use it.
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Havok4

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #68 on: October 29, 2010, 03:54:41 PM »
Iceberg is "elephant-sized", and is essentially a 20ft radius+ chunk of ice with an undefined height. It shatters into enough snow to bury a larger radius. Hard to seriously argue 5x5 weights that much. Have to assume the undefined height makes up the mass to make the snow burial possible.

SR is only there because it is [Evocation] (blehrg)

As a DM I would errata out the SR, and perhaps it should fall under conjuration. Perhaps not... it's not like conjuration needs anymore spells.
Evocation isn't allowed to have anything nice because WotC hates it while they still want everyone to use it.

Because they want everyone to use it and balance it against fighters I think.

Azrael

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #69 on: October 29, 2010, 07:28:42 PM »
I thought this was plainly about unmodified spells, not subject to class abilities/feats...since it clearly is not...

How about you get a wizard/incantrix/dweomerkeeper with irresistible spell and drop an irresistible supernatural Frostfell or Maw of Chaos on whatever.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2010, 06:41:34 AM »
I can't believe anticipate teleportation and anticipate teleportation, greater never got mentioned in this thread.
Because technically they are a buff, though they do have offensive possibility. I forgot that it is 24hours and the 6th level one is 3 rounds  :D. Anyone else think its worth it?

It's not amazing, but Kelgor's Grave Mist only has a save against part of the effect.  The rest hits automatically.  Not bad for a long range AoE 1st level spell.JaronK
Auto fatigue is nice but my PHII116 lists it as 2nd level. Not in mango index or sc. Was it updated elsewhere, the usual spell reference site is down.

Iceberg I was aware of. I'll add it with a note that the RAW is ... off

Azrael, yes archmages with supernatural spell can open up a bunch of no save, SR yes spells like maze. But that list is much larger  :(
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RelentlessImp

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2010, 07:35:27 AM »
I can't believe anticipate teleportation and anticipate teleportation, greater never got mentioned in this thread.
Because technically they are a buff, though they do have offensive possibility. I forgot that it is 24hours and the 6th level one is 3 rounds  :D. Anyone else think its worth it?

How are they not? They're basically "Fuck You" to Scry-and-Die tactics; SR: "You Wish"; Save: "Hahahaha no".

I can just imagine the way it warns you about teleport. Some cheeky wizard makes it conjure a projected image-like effect dressed as a british butler.

"Pardon, sir, I thought you should know that there's a spellcaster that will be arriving in eighteen seconds."
"Jolly good, Jeeves. Perhaps I should prepare some defenses, wot?"
"Very good, sir. Please do make haste, or you shall be late for tea."
"Right-o."
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McPoyo

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2010, 08:07:45 AM »
I can't believe anticipate teleportation and anticipate teleportation, greater never got mentioned in this thread.
Because technically they are a buff, though they do have offensive possibility. I forgot that it is 24hours and the 6th level one is 3 rounds  :D. Anyone else think its worth it?

How are they not? They're basically "Fuck You" to Scry-and-Die tactics; SR: "You Wish"; Save: "Hahahaha no".

I can just imagine the way it warns you about teleport. Some cheeky wizard makes it conjure a projected image-like effect dressed as a british butler.

"Pardon, sir, I thought you should know that there's a spellcaster that will be arriving in eighteen seconds."
"Jolly good, Jeeves. Perhaps I should prepare some defenses, wot?"
"Very good, sir. Please do make haste, or you shall be late for tea."
"Right-o."
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[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
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Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
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RelentlessImp

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2010, 08:09:44 AM »
I can't believe anticipate teleportation and anticipate teleportation, greater never got mentioned in this thread.
Because technically they are a buff, though they do have offensive possibility. I forgot that it is 24hours and the 6th level one is 3 rounds  :D. Anyone else think its worth it?

How are they not? They're basically "Fuck You" to Scry-and-Die tactics; SR: "You Wish"; Save: "Hahahaha no".

I can just imagine the way it warns you about teleport. Some cheeky wizard makes it conjure a projected image-like effect dressed as a british butler.

"Pardon, sir, I thought you should know that there's a spellcaster that will be arriving in eighteen seconds."
"Jolly good, Jeeves. Perhaps I should prepare some defenses, wot?"
"Very good, sir. Please do make haste, or you shall be late for tea."
"Right-o."
And...I'm doing this from now on.

Bonus points if it uses John Cleese's or Tim Curry's voice.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2010, 09:12:53 AM »
Forgot about Dream.

TL;DR: you can stick anyone who sleeps into an arbitrarily long coma with a long enough message.
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wotmaniac

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2010, 12:15:27 PM »
Forgot about Dream.

TL;DR: you can stick anyone who sleeps into an arbitrarily long coma with a long enough message.
no save ... but it does allow for SR.

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I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2010, 06:18:29 PM »
Forgot about Dream.

TL;DR: you can stick anyone who sleeps into an arbitrarily long coma with a long enough message.
no save ... but it does allow for SR.

SR on the messenger.  The recipient doesn't get it.  You aren't even targeting the recipient.
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Garryl

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2010, 07:59:56 PM »
Forgot about Dream.

TL;DR: you can stick anyone who sleeps into an arbitrarily long coma with a long enough message.
no save ... but it does allow for SR.

SR on the messenger.  The recipient doesn't get it.  You aren't even targeting the recipient.

I don't see anything in the spell description that says that the recipient has to stay asleep for the whole duration of the Dream spell.
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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2010, 08:15:23 PM »
"I have a message for you.  It is entitled: The Complete Works of Fyodor Dostoevsky.  Here we go..."

Without a ring of sustenance or some other shtick...that's a No save No SR JUST DIE.
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fuinjutsu

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Re: No Hit, No Save, No SR effects
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2010, 08:20:15 PM »
Speaking of Frostburn.

Iceberg
Level: Wiz/Sor 9
Saving Throw: None if within 20ft of the target.
Spell Resistance: Yes, but how the hell does it work?

The same way SR vs fireball does, I presume?
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.