Author Topic: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players  (Read 4446 times)

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Greyfell

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NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« on: August 31, 2010, 11:54:43 AM »
so, there's a pre-planned fight in my ongoing campaign that I DM.  It is against an NPC party of equiv (or nearly so) level to the characters. There are five party members/players, so I figure I need a five NPC party.

The problem is, the last time I ran this encounter A PC warmage damn near one shotted the enemy with a sudden empowered etc pumped up fireball.  I can't remember everything he put into that, but it pretty much ended the encounter except for some mopping up.

This time around, I want it to be a challenge.  I need a five NPC party, level 8 across the board.  Some things to remember (mostly campaign flavor) : this is forgotten realms setting.  The party in question are operating as slavers, selling lower level people they've captured (especially spellcasters) for profit.  The spells for them should (to a point) reflect this.

The pc party is roughly as follows (level 8 by the time they hit this encounter):

Swordsage 4/monk 1/shadowsun ninja 3
Cleric 5 of Isthisus (realms N water deity)/ stormlord 3
factotum 5/master of masks 1/factotum 2
Sorcerer 8
Mystic Ranger 4/scout 1 (swift hunter)/Stalker of Karrash 2/Lion of Talesid 1


My latest idea for challenging them is as follows

Hobgoblin warblade 8 (most likely tiger claw with blood in the water and TWF kukri)
Wizard 8 (improved/combat familiar: worg)
Cleric (of Cyric) 8
Catfolk Rogue 7 (catfolk pounce/twin weapon fighting, possibly greater invis'd by wizard at start)
human fighter 5/dervish 3 (yes, I know, odd levels of fighter are bad)


Hobgoblin Warblade
[spoiler]Hobgoblin warblade 7

STR    15  +2
DEX  16   +3
CON  12    +1
INT   14   +2
WIS  13   +1
CHA  8      -1

feats: 1st/3rd/6th and bonus 5th for warblade

Warblade notes:
7 maneuvers known, 4 readied, 2 stances known
Battle clarity (INT bonus to reflex saves if not flat footed)
Weapon Aptitude: Counts as a fighter of Warblade level -2 for taking 'fighter only' feats.
Uncanny Dodge: DEX to AC even when flatfooted or surprised by invisible attacker
Battle Ardor:  INT bonus to rolls for confirming Crit's
5th level bonus feat:
Improved Uncanny Dodge: may not be flanked
Battle cunning: INT bonus to Melee damage rolls against flanked or flatfooted opponents.

Feats:  Twin weapon fighting, ITWF, Improved iniative (bonus), Weapon Focus: Kukri

Base saves:  (f/r/w) 5/2/2

Maneuvers:
wolf fang strike (attack both weapons, -2 on each (advantage: can be done after moving instead of full attack))
Rabid wolf strike (+4 to hit, attack deals +2d6 damage.  You are -4 AC till next turn)
Claw at the moon (jump check = to enemy AC, attack deals +2d6 damage and +4 to confirm crit)
Flesh Ripper (if you hit, DC 15 fort or -4 AC and attack rolls for one round.  If a crit, two rounds)
Sapphire Nightmare blade (opponent flat footed and +1d6 damage with concentration check)
Steel Wind (attack two threatened foes)
Stone Bones (gain DR 5/adamantine with strike)

stances:

Blood in the water (when you score a crit, gain untyped +1/+1 bonus to hr/dr)
Leaping dragon (+10 feet to jumps while in stance, plus jumps are counted as running jumps)

weapons:  dual wield kukri

BaB: +7/+2
Full attack:  +8/+3    +8/+3  (-2 for TWF and light weapon, +2 for STR, +1 for WF: Kukri)
Damage: d4+2 main, d4+1 off hand.

+1 Kukri
MW kukri
+1 chain shirt
2000 GP[/spoiler]

Catfolk Rogue
[spoiler]catfolk rogue 5/theif acrobat 3

STR  13    +1
CON 13   +1
DEX  22  +6
INT   12   +1
WIS   10
CHA  16   +3

Feats 1/3/6

Catfolk Pounce
Weapon finesse
Two weapon fighting

Abilities (thief)
Sneak attack +3d6
trap sense +2
Uncanny dodge
Evasion
Trap finding

Abilities (thief acro)
Fast acrobatics: Balance full speed no penalty. climb half speed no penalty.  Ignores -10 to tumble at full speed.
kip up: stand from prone as a free action that does NOT provoke attack
Steady stance: not flatfooted while climbing or balancing, adds Thf-Acro level to checks to remain climbing or balanced when damaged.
agile fighting +1/+2: +1 dodge bonus to AC at all times, +2 if fighting defensive/total defense
slow fall 20ft: falls count as 20ft less for damage
acrobatic charge:  May charge over difficult terrain or through allies.  May charge while jumping, swinging on ropes etc etc
Defensive Roll 1/day: once a day, when a attack would deal lethal ( 0 HP or less) damage, may make a Reflex save to take half.  DC=damage dealt



F/R/W:  3/14/2
BaB: +5

Rapier (d6+2 dmg, 18-20/ X2)
dagger (d4+2 dmg, 19-20/ X2)  10 ft increment
+3d6 sneak attack if opponent flatfooted or flanked

+12 to attack (+5 BaB and +7 bonus from WF/DEX)
+10 rapier and +10 Dagger (TWF feat and light offhand weapon)

+1 rapier
+1 dagger
+1 mithral chain shirt (+6 dex bonus, no ACP, +4 AC)
cloak of elvenkind (+5 hide checks)
MW short bow, 20 arrows (5 with giant wasp poison, DC 18, d6 dex/d6 dex)
200 GP

AC:   23 (+6 dex, +5 armor, +1 Natural armor, +1 thief/acro agile fight)

Hp:  48[/spoiler]

Cleric of Cyric
[spoiler]Human cleric of Cyric 8

STR    10 
DEX   12  +1
CON  13  +1
INT    10
WIS   16  +3
CHA   12

Feats:  1st/3rd/6th bonus for human (4 total)
Divine Vigor
Combat Casting
Power Attack

spells per day (0/1/2/3/4):  6/ 5+1 / 4+1 / 4+1 / 2+1 (with WIS bonus spells)
Domains: Illusion (illusion spells +1 CL) and Evil (evil spells +1 caster level)
Domain spells
1st:  protection from Good, silent image
2nd: Desecrate, Minor image
3rd: Circle against Good, Displacement
4th:  Unholy Blight, Phantasmal Killer

Saves
F/R/W
7/3/9

DC's
zero:  13
1st:  14
2nd: 15
3rd: 16
4th: 17

Spells memorized:

1st: Blessed aim, Cure light X 3(1d8+5), Command (Protection from good)

2nd:  Hold Person, Cure Moderate X 2 (2d8+8), Wave of Grief (Minor Image)

3rd:  Mass Aid, Darkfire, Dispel Magic, cure serious (3d8+8)  (Displacement)

4th:  Divine Power, castigate  (Unholy Blight)


+1 long sword
+1 full plate
+1 heavy steel shield
cloak of resistance +1
MW heavy crossbow, 10 bolts
50 gold

AC: 23 (+9 armor, +1 dex, +3 heavy shield)
HP: 55
[/spoiler]

Wizard
[spoiler]Human Wizard 8

STR    12  +1
CON  13  +1
DEX   14  +2
INT    18   +4
WIS   13  +1
CHA  13  +1

BaB: +3     F/R/W:  +2/+2/+5 (no stat adjust)
Feats:  1st/3rd/6th and bonus human.  Scribe scroll and one bonus wizard feat (6 total)

spells day (with INT bonus)
4/5/4/4/2

Feats: 
Scribe Scroll
Empower spell
extend spell (+1 lvl)
sculpt spell (+1 lvl)
improved familiar (Worg)
Alertness (from familiar)
Fiery Burst (reserve, feeding off fireball.  May use a standard action to create a 5ft radius fire burst at up to 30 ft.  Deals 3d6, reflex for half.  Also, +1 CL for fire spells) 


typical spells memorized (actually a list of 'good' spells for the moment)

Zero:  resistance, detect magic, touch of fatigue, message

1st: Magic Missile (4 missiles, d4+1 each), Shield, Ray of Enfeeblement X 2, Grease

2nd: glitterdust, scorching ray (evoc-fire), mirror image, Extended Mage armor **

3rd: Haste (trans), fireball (9d6), Great Thunderclap (evoc-sonic), Wall of fire

4th: Greater invisibility, stoneskin

**already cast

Worg Familiar
30 HP
+2 init
speed 50 (10 squares)
AC 14 (touch 12, flat 12)
BaB/grapple: +4/+7
Bite +7 melee, d6+4 damage

Trip (+3 modifier)
Darkvision 60, low light vision, scent.
F/R/W: +6, +6, +3

Augment familiar (8 rounds): +4 STR/DEX/CON, DR 5/magic, +2 resistance saves
Enhance familiar (8 hours): +2 competence saves/attack/damage and +2 dodge to AC
Fortify familiar (8 hours): 2d8 temp HP, +2 enhance to NA, 25% ignore crits


MW Dagger
2 normal daggers
?
cloak of resistance +1
Scroll of Enhance familiar, fortify familiar and augment familiar (8th level)
Scroll of fly, greater invisibility, steeldance
2000 gp

AC:  16 (+2 dex, +4 armor)
HP:  35


Spellbook: above spells plus

Zero:  read magic, dancing lights, mage hand

1st level: color spray, reduce person, disguise self

2nd: web, darkness, levitate

3rd: fireball, fly, steeldance

4th: globe of lesser invulnerability.
[/spoiler]

Dervish build
[spoiler]Human fighter 5/dervish 3

STR    14  +2
DEX   17  +3
CON  12  +1
INT     14 +2
WIS    10 
CHA   13  +1

BaB: +8/+3
Full Attack (with bonuses and light 2w penalty):  +12/+7 and +12/+7
D6 +7 damage
F/R/W
6/7/5

Feats (human, fighter 3, lvl 1, 3, 6) 7

Combat expertise
Dodge
Mobility
Weapon focus: scimitar
Weapon specialization: scimitar
Twin weapon fighting
Improved two weapon fighting

Abilities:
Slashing blades: +2/+2 with slashing weapons while dancing, scimitars count as light weapons
Movement mastery: take 10 on perform (dance), tumble or jump even in combat
Dervish dance 2/day
+5 feet base speed
Spring attack feat
+1 AC, for ALL forms of AC (touch, flat footed).  Loses if immobilized/helpless

Total scimitar bonuses
(Hit) +2 str, +2 dervish, +1 weapon focus for +5
(Dam) +2 str, +2 dervish, +2 weapon spec for +6

+1 mithral shirt
2 x scimitar +1
Potion of barkskin +2
Potion of shield of faith +3[/spoiler]

thoughts? Ideas for improvement?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 12:00:44 PM by Greyfell »
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jolt

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2010, 12:05:48 PM »
Hmm if you put a 5 man party against another 5 man party of the same level, people are gonna die regardless of which side they're on ... Unless you play them without tactics ofcourse. I guess it depends alot on what you do with the NPC wizard and also on what the sorcerer does.

RobbyPants

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2010, 12:13:46 PM »
Hmm if you put a 5 man party against another 5 man party of the same level, people are gonna die regardless of which side they're on ... Unless you play them without tactics ofcourse. I guess it depends alot on what you do with the NPC wizard and also on what the sorcerer does.
Exactly.  Assuming an equal level of tactics on each side, you're looking at a 50-50 win chance for each side, and even the victor will likely suffer losses.  Also, don't forget that you have the added advantage of knowing what the PCs are capable of, but the players know nothing about the NPCs.

You may want to tone it down a bit, unless you think it's likely that the NPCs will retreat or surrender long before any of them die.  If this is a fight to the death, you have a 50% chance of a TPK.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2010, 12:21:29 PM »
Hmm if you put a 5 man party against another 5 man party of the same level, people are gonna die regardless of which side they're on ... Unless you play them without tactics ofcourse. I guess it depends alot on what you do with the NPC wizard and also on what the sorcerer does.
Exactly.  Assuming an equal level of tactics on each side, you're looking at a 50-50 win chance for each side, and even the victor will likely suffer losses.  Also, don't forget that you have the added advantage of knowing what the PCs are capable of, but the players know nothing about the NPCs.

You may want to tone it down a bit, unless you think it's likely that the NPCs will retreat or surrender long before any of them die.  If this is a fight to the death, you have a 50% chance of a TPK.

NPC wealth is lower than PC, though,, which gives the players a rather significant edge
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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2010, 12:23:07 PM »
If you want to have the slavers to have some protection, I would throw up a lesser globe of invulnerability.
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Praef

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2010, 03:13:17 PM »
5 Dragonfire inspiration crusader/warblades, all with a different energy/musical instrument.
Got your 5man band right here.

skydragonknight

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2010, 04:57:12 PM »
My recommendation:

  • Male Paladin/Melee Cleric. Self Buffing Charger
  • Female Cleric Archer w/Radiant Servant of Pelor and Divine Metamagic: Reach Spell
  • Male Warblade specialized in Tiger Claw techniques that require jumping.
  • Female Conjurer (Malkonvoker possible) with Augment Summoning (or the equivalent ACF) and all the elemental orb spells. (had Arcane Disciple: healing, but retrained)
  • Male Ninja/Rogue who can dual wield or throw for high sneak attack damage.

They'll look like this, minus the bearded guy:

[spoiler][/spoiler]
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 05:07:33 PM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Greyfell

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2010, 12:18:08 AM »
Uhm.. skydragonknight.. don't get me wrong.  I appreciate the feedback and all.

But you did notice their slavers??  I find it very odd a paladin and a cleric of Pelor would be running around, enslaving people, and selling to the mind flayers and certain doom/death.  Did you try to oppose the right party from the original post?   ;)  I mean, I suppose I could use one of the UA paladins.. (slaughter or tyranny, iirc)

TML: in the past, this has been the huge difference when running this fight.  The PC's have won handily because amongst other reasons, the Warmage **always** kept back a fireball and every pump he could manage for anything 'unexpected'.  The PC's have better attack rolls, better armor, and better items overall, simply because of the Pc versus NPC wealth by Level.  Even if the Slavers stalk them and wait to pounce at an oppurtune moment (right after a big fight)  the PC's still win the 'bling bling' war :)

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dark_samuari

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2010, 01:06:20 AM »
How about something like this?



Mr. Strong: Male Half-Giant Psychic Warrior 2/Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 4
Mr. Swift: Male Xeph Psychic Warrior 2/Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 4
Mr. Smart: Male Elan Ardent 8
Mr. Suave: Male Synad Telepath 8
Mr. Spooky: Male Duergar Ardent 8

A whole team of manifesters (who are of unique races each) can create a memorable experience of other-worldliness within the encounter.   

skydragonknight

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2010, 01:14:16 AM »
They can be different alignments/deities. I was just going for the FF4 party. Cleric Archer could easily be Eldrich Disciple. I also like Dman's take on this.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 01:18:26 AM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Greyfell

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2010, 02:14:11 AM »
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That picture screams "quirky mini-boss squad".  Hell, I bet that's the picture they use on TVtropes.org :)

I definitely could see throwing a psionic character or two at the party, along with Eldritch Disciple or something equally strange and cool just to keep them off balance.  I don't think this group uses psionic stuff on a regular basis.

on a odd note... what other 'invocation using class' other then warlock is there for Eldritch Disciple?   ???
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Saeomon

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2010, 02:41:23 AM »
If you want a party that will be a CHALLENGE to the PCs, which may knock a few of them down, but which won't result in a TPK, I recommend focusing on buffs and single target damage. Something like this ought to do it:

Two Fighter 2/Psychic Warrior 6 grunts.
One Rogue 3/Wildshape Variant Ranger 5 lurker.
One Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 2 healer/controller.
One 8th level Bard leader.

The Bard and the Mystic Theurge start out by buffing the hell out of the grunts and the lurker. The grunts position themselves to soak up the force of the PCs' attack while the lurker flanks. Then the Mystic Theurge and Bard work on battlefield control and keeping up the buffs.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 02:43:14 AM by Saeomon »

Generic_PC

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2010, 03:00:04 AM »
The only other official WotC Invocation Class I know of is the Dragonfire Adept, from Dragon Magic. I'm not sure it qualifies for Eldritch Disciple, however.
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Saeomon

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2010, 03:40:36 AM »
The only other official WotC Invocation Class I know of is the Dragonfire Adept, from Dragon Magic. I'm not sure it qualifies for Eldritch Disciple, however.

This is getting off topic, but I want to note that, by RAW, Dragonfire Adept does qualify.

Eldritch Disciple entry requirements:
Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks
Knowledge (The Planes) 4 ranks
Able to cast 2nd level Divine spells
Able to use least invocations
Able to turn/rebuke undead
Must worship chaotic and/or evil deity

Dragon Invocations meet the bolded requirement. However, its class abilities are mostly dependent on having Eldritch Blast or Eldritch Essences, so a Dragonfire Adept picking this PrC would get totally shafted without DM intervention and house rules. Still, by RAW, it's an open choice, even if it's a dumb one.

Interestingly, by RAW, Dragonfire Adept does not provide the prerequisites for the arcane casting equivalent PrC, Eldritch Theurge, since you must have at least a 2d6 Eldritch Blast to qualify for that PrC. WotC could have added a similar requirement to Eldritch Disciple and completely closed it off to Dragonfire Adepts. Poor design on their part.

jolt

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2010, 08:36:12 AM »
TML: in the past, this has been the huge difference when running this fight.  The PC's have won handily because amongst other reasons, the Warmage **always** kept back a fireball and every pump he could manage for anything 'unexpected'.  The PC's have better attack rolls, better armor, and better items overall, simply because of the Pc versus NPC wealth by Level.  Even if the Slavers stalk them and wait to pounce at an oppurtune moment (right after a big fight)  the PC's still win the 'bling bling' war :)

Fireball must be one of the easiest spells to counter. Simply have people spread out or start very close to your PC's so he can't shoot that thing otherwise he'd kill partymembers. Also, fire resistance/immunity ain't that hard to come by.

weenog

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2010, 08:50:33 AM »
TML: in the past, this has been the huge difference when running this fight.  The PC's have won handily because amongst other reasons, the Warmage **always** kept back a fireball and every pump he could manage for anything 'unexpected'.  The PC's have better attack rolls, better armor, and better items overall, simply because of the Pc versus NPC wealth by Level.  Even if the Slavers stalk them and wait to pounce at an oppurtune moment (right after a big fight)  the PC's still win the 'bling bling' war :)

Fireball must be one of the easiest spells to counter. Simply have people spread out or start very close to your PC's so he can't shoot that thing otherwise he'd kill partymembers. Also, fire resistance/immunity ain't that hard to come by.

He probably has energy sub and/or admixture, I would if I were playing a warmage.  Having a few draconic auras of Resistance (either from actual dragon shamans, or from characters with the Draconic Aura feat) can take a lot of the sting out of big elemental blasts, though.  If you go with the feat, you should probably put it on dragonblooded characters so it scales up in power (not as fast as a dragon shaman's, but it won't stay a flat +1 anyway).  Probably best to put it on the bard(s) since you'll likely want them dragonblooded for Dragonfire Inspiration, anyway.
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TheEndIsNear

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2010, 08:54:37 AM »
How about something like this?



Mr. Strong: Male Half-Giant Psychic Warrior 2/Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 4
Mr. Swift: Male Xeph Psychic Warrior 2/Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 4
Mr. Smart: Male Elan Ardent 8
Mr. Suave: Male Synad Telepath 8
Mr. Spooky: Male Duergar Ardent 8

A whole team of manifesters (who are of unique races each) can create a memorable experience of other-worldliness within the encounter.   



Lycanthromancer

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2010, 09:34:11 AM »
Uhm.. skydragonknight.. don't get me wrong.  I appreciate the feedback and all.

But you did notice their slavers??  I find it very odd a paladin and a cleric of Pelor would be running around, enslaving people, and selling to the mind flayers and certain doom/death.
Hello! Cleric of Pelor! You know, the Burning Hate?

Also, paladins are Lawful, and their main schtick is taking away party choice due to losing their class features if they don't.

Make it a parody-party-of-parity.

Also, they're slavers. They'll take foes alive when they can, so use potent nonlethal tactics and you won't have to worry about a TKO.

Then again, use Tucker's treants or somesuch; if your tactics are sound you can use much lower-level foes and still be a real challenge.
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skydragonknight

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2010, 02:55:23 PM »
Flavor is mutable. I just find it silly that just because a cleric is evil they're bad at healing. Not all evil armies are undead, after all. So the cleric in my example would be CN most likely.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Nachofan99

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Re: NPC 'five man band' to challenge my players
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 04:23:12 PM »
I like the idea of the enemy party of slavers using mostly, mostly, non-lethal tactics.  I would do something slightly different...


Focused Illusionist - spamming silent images of summoned monsters etc to divert the party's focus.
Summoning Druid - spamming the *real* summoned monsters once again to tank and divert the party's focus.
Dual-Wield Sneak Attacking Ninja/Rogue/Warblade/Fighter - Dumping a massive Full Round, Subdual Sneak Attack/Sudden Strike to someone's face.
Big Mclarge Huge Beatstick - Focused on crowd control.  All his AoO's are Trips and Disarms so that McSneaky can knock them out and capture them.
Thrallherd - Controlling a dozen level 1 wizards who ready actions to magic missile/buzzing bee/grease other spellcasters, interrupting their spells completely.  He will also try to dominate the shit out of the party.