Author Topic: Amethyst Burst power from Dragon Magic: (almost) everything a Psion needs?  (Read 11154 times)

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Saeomon

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In a direct damage power, that is.  :)

I came across this power the other day and it seems almost too good to be true. That makes me wonder, of course, if it IS too good to be true. Here's the details:

[spoiler]Amethyst Burst is a level 2 Psion/Wilder power. It is of the Metacreativity discipline and has the (Creation) and [Force] descriptors. It takes one standard action to manifest, and is of instantaneous duration. Unaugmented, it does 2d6 damage in a 20-ft.-radius burst at Close range, with a Reflex save for half. Power Resistance/Spell Resistance does not protect against it. It can be augmented; for every two additional power points spent, the damage increases by 1d6 and the save DC increases by 1.[/spoiler]

The way I see it, this is a very versatile power, and takes care of so many of the problems a Psion or Wilder faces in picking powers.

  • It's an area-effect so it's effective against swarms.
  • It does Force damage so it's effective against incorporeal creatures.
  • It's an instantaneous Creation effect so it's effective against anti magic/null psionics fields.
  • Spell/Power Resistance isn't effective against it.

These are the potential downsides that I see:

  • The biggest problem is that a 20-foot-radius burst at Close range could make avoiding hitting allies very difficult.
  • It's blocked by Globe of Invulnerability/Lesser Globe of Invulnerability (but so are all other 2nd level offensive powers).
  • It does allow a Reflex save, and, unlike the various Energy powers, you can't switch to Cold to force a Fortitude save, so Evasion will always apply.
  • The augment isn't as good as, say, Energy Burst or Energy Missile.
  • It's from Dragon Magic, a rather obscure source.

What do others think? How does this power stack up compared to the others available to Psions at low- to mid-levels? It reads like a keeper to me.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 02:33:54 AM by Saeomon »

PhaedrusXY

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Yeah, it looks like the power you'd pick if you only wanted to learn one blasting power, ever.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

veekie

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If only it's radius was augmentable. :P
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[/spoiler]

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archangel.arcanis

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the answer to the range problem would be affinity field and a way of returning from the dead  :devil
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veekie

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But I want my 400ft radius burst centered on me!
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Saeomon

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Yeah, it looks like the power you'd pick if you only wanted to learn one blasting power, ever.

Which seems to be the goal of a lot of Psion builds out there.

Too bad my DM's being a bit of hard nose about learning these powers. Says I need to know about Gem Dragons, and that there's no way my character would at this point.

Oh well.

I think I'll go with Energy Stun and Transdimensional Power to cover most of the bases. SR and Anti-Magic/Null Psionic Fields don't really come into play until higher levels. I'll either have learned about Gem Dragons by then or have other means of countering those problems.

Echoes

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Yeah, it looks like the power you'd pick if you only wanted to learn one blasting power, ever.

Which seems to be the goal of a lot of Psion builds out there.

Too bad my DM's being a bit of hard nose about learning these powers. Says I need to know about Gem Dragons, and that there's no way my character would at this point.

Oh well.

I think I'll go with Energy Stun and Transdimensional Power to cover most of the bases. SR and Anti-Magic/Null Psionic Fields don't really come into play until higher levels. I'll either have learned about Gem Dragons by then or have other means of countering those problems.

Gem Dragons are Psionic. Do you have Knowledge (psionics)? If so, you can just make a Knowledge check to know about 'em. If your DM is still being obstructionist, then have him just say "No, I don't want you having that power right now." rather than inventing bullshit reasons why you can't.
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carnivore

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show him this part:

"Independent Research: A psion also can research a power independently, duplicating an existing power or creating an entirely new one. If characters are allowed to develop new powers, use these guidelines to handle the situation.
Any kind of manifester can create a new power. The research involved requires access to a retreat conducive to uninterrupted meditation. Research involves an expenditure of 200 XP per week and takes one week per level of the power. At the end of that time, the character makes a Psicraft check (DC 10 + spell level). If that check succeeds, the character learns the new power if her research produced a viable power. If the check fails, the character must go through the research process again if she wants to keep trying."

your psion can learn ANY power he wants

 :D

carnivore

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also ... from the same Book .... Gemstone Breath .....is much better ... notice:

Gemstone Breath(Psychokinesis)
Psion/Wilder 4
Manifesting Time: 1 Swift Action
Duration 1/rnd lvl or until expended
Range: 30' or 60'
Area: Cone-Shaped Burst or Line-Shaped Burst
PR yes
Standard action to use Breath, # breath uses = 1/ ML, breath every other round

effect:
7 PP =30' Cone, 2d6 Light Damage and Blindness 1 rnd, Ref save for 1/2 damage and Negate
9 PP =30' cone, 4d6 Sonic and Shaken 1 rnd,+1 DC for saves, Ref save 1/2 damage, Will save Negate
11 PP= 60' Line 6d6 Force damage,+2 DC for save, Ref save 1/2 damage
13 PP= 30' cone 8d6 Sonic damage and Deafened 1 Minute,+3 DC for Save,Ref save 1/2 damage, Fort save Negate Deaf
15 PP= 30' cone 10d6 Unnamed Damage, +4 DC for Save, Ref for 1/2

you can choose what you need to fit the job, and as you get higher levels.... you get more blasts with this ...works great with Widen Power

 :D

Saeomon

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Gem Dragons are Psionic. Do you have Knowledge (psionics)? If so, you can just make a Knowledge check to know about 'em. If your DM is still being obstructionist, then have him just say "No, I don't want you having that power right now." rather than inventing bullshit reasons why you can't.

I think it's that she doesn't want me having the power right now. According to her, everything in Dragon Magic is rare. The powers are those unique and invented by Gem Dragons and are a guarded secret. DM says I can learn 'em eventually. Just have to convince a Gem Dragon to teach me...

On the other hand, she did say I can make a Knowledge check next session to see if I know anything about 'em. I'm betting it'll be DC 35 at least. Part of me is tempted to take Call to Mind so I get a reroll with a bonus, since we leveled last session. I just suspect that Entangling Ectoplasm will be a more useful choice, in the long run. *lol*

Anyway, her rationale is more about the plot of the campaign/flavor of the world than it is about the strength of the power. But, bottom line, DM says not now so the answer is not now

...Independent Research...your psion can learn ANY power he wants...

If the DM becomes real stick-in-the-mud then I'll go that route. We're all still low-level so I understand the ruling. Heh...and I also don't have the XP to spend quite yet.

Saeomon

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also ... from the same Book .... Gemstone Breath .....is much better ... notice:

Gemstone Breath(Psychokinesis)
Psion/Wilder 4
Manifesting Time: 1 Swift Action
Duration 1/rnd lvl or until expended
Range: 30' or 60'
Area: Cone-Shaped Burst or Line-Shaped Burst
PR yes
Standard action to use Breath, # breath uses = 1/ ML, breath every other round

effect:
7 PP =30' Cone, 2d6 Light Damage and Blindness 1 rnd, Ref save for 1/2 damage and Negate
9 PP =30' cone, 4d6 Sonic and Shaken 1 rnd,+1 DC for saves, Ref save 1/2 damage, Will save Negate
11 PP= 60' Line 6d6 Force damage,+2 DC for save, Ref save 1/2 damage
13 PP= 30' cone 8d6 Sonic damage and Deafened 1 Minute,+3 DC for Save,Ref save 1/2 damage, Fort save Negate Deaf
15 PP= 30' cone 10d6 Unnamed Damage, +4 DC for Save, Ref for 1/2

you can choose what you need to fit the job, and as you get higher levels.... you get more blasts with this ...works great with Widen Power

 :D

Oh yeah. I'd love to get my hands on that power, too. Very versatile AND it has the added bonus of being more PP-efficient. Has even more potential when combined with Anarchic Initiate, which my DM has already approved.

Amethyst Burst still beats it in terms of bypassing almost every kind of defense, so if I was only going to take a single blasting power as a psion, I still think Amethyst Burst would be a better overall choice.

carnivore

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it can also do Force Damage...even better also ... look at 11PP augment

 :D

Saeomon

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it can also do Force Damage...even better also ... look at 11PP augment

 :D

Amethyst Burst also counts as an instantaneous creation effect and is SR/PR: No. :)

Echoes

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Gem Dragons are Psionic. Do you have Knowledge (psionics)? If so, you can just make a Knowledge check to know about 'em. If your DM is still being obstructionist, then have him just say "No, I don't want you having that power right now." rather than inventing bullshit reasons why you can't.

I think it's that she doesn't want me having the power right now. According to her, everything in Dragon Magic is rare. The powers are those unique and invented by Gem Dragons and are a guarded secret. DM says I can learn 'em eventually. Just have to convince a Gem Dragon to teach me...

I don't really see where she's getting that, considering all Dragon Magic has to say is this: "These new powers are intended for manifesters who seek to access the powers of dragons or expect to face draconic enemies." That's the fluff for the powers in Dragon Magic. So, unless dragons themselves are super-rare, these really shouldn't be. Of course, your DM can make whatever rulings they want, and I'm just some guy on the internet ultimately.

Quote
On the other hand, she did say I can make a Knowledge check next session to see if I know anything about 'em. I'm betting it'll be DC 35 at least. Part of me is tempted to take Call to Mind so I get a reroll with a bonus, since we leveled last session. I just suspect that Entangling Ectoplasm will be a more useful choice, in the long run. *lol*

Anyway, her rationale is more about the plot of the campaign/flavor of the world than it is about the strength of the power. But, bottom line, DM says not now so the answer is not now

Knowledge check DCs (for identifying a particular creature) at DC 10 + HD. You're not even doing that, though, so if dragons were rare, the DC "should" be 25-30. If they aren't, it should be in the 15-20 range. Unless she just ad-hocs the DC entirely, which is possible.

If she doesn't want you to have it, that's one thing. I'm not arguing that you should or shouldn't have it. I just hate DMs who pull bullshit excuses out of their ass when all they need to do is say "No, I don't feel that ability is appropriate to my game". Which, if she's said so, is totally fine and understandable. Some people don't like dragons and dragon-based crap, and that's cool (although slightly odd in a game called dungeons and dragons).
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[spoiler]
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Saeomon

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That's the fluff for the powers in Dragon Magic. So, unless dragons themselves are super-rare, these really shouldn't be. Of course, your DM can make whatever rulings they want, and I'm just some guy on the internet ultimately.

Oh, I've had lots of debates with her about fluff versus crunch. She argues that the descriptions WotC includes of what the power looks like when manifested, i.e. how Amethyst Burst creates and launches a gem from your chest, isn't just fluff. *shrug* I disagree completely but I'm going to abide by her rulings since it's her game. She's a long-time friend but still fairly new to DMing, so I try to cut her some slack.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Yeah, well, if you have that argument again, see the DMG Page34

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Saeomon

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Yeah, well, if you have that argument again, see the DMG Page34

Quote

I'll definitely quote that part above. I detest some of WotC's descriptions, including the one for Amethyst Burst. Forming a crystal INSIDE my character's chest? No thanks. Outside the chest, between parallel palms, like a Tai Chi move is more like it IMO.

Based on WotC's description, it sounds like manifesting the spell would result in a gaping chest wound. Also, what if the manifester doesn't have a chest? Like they're an Unbodied, a Psion metamorphed into an ooze, or even a psionics-using undead missing a ribcage? If you're literal in your interpretation then the power would simply not work for a manifester of those types.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 11:00:41 PM by Saeomon »

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Ask her if Hydra Slaying Strike works only on hydras.
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awaken DM golem

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2d6 and 2 for 1 aug , is par for the course, and kinda boring.
[force] is just a dash of sugar.
Otherwise, creatures could have resistance, just not the standard ones.

Gemstone Breath = very nice

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Re: Amethyst Burst power from Dragon Magic: (almost) everything a Psion needs?
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2010, 11:23:09 AM »
Ask her if Hydra Slaying Strike works only on hydras.
It doesn't even do that. :P