Author Topic: The end all binder....  (Read 5778 times)

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mBelchezere

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2010, 06:03:20 PM »
i posted something similar to this for your original question, but just to have it all in one place (modified after your situation was clarified)
Binder20//Archivist4,Anima Mage10(divine variant), Tenebrous Apostate5,Tainted Sorcerer1
EBL35
Technically, you can't use dual progression Prestige Classes that way. If you have two classes which offer the same thing (Binding), you take the faster of the progressions. The Gestalt rules in UA straight up forbid dual progression prestiges classes on top of it all.

It is a variant rule in a splatbook and is therefore even more mutable than regular DnD stuff. I'd run this trick by the group beforehand.
ya, my bad.... I threw that build together quickly, using my groups loose interpretation of stacking abilites(habit), we play so that if the ability says it stacks, it stacks, like wildshape HD(only), sneak attack etc...

@ mBelchezere  :  so... strict RAW gestalt rules? or....

Okay first thank you all for your ideas!!:D They do sound really good in concept and I'd like to create them all for future campaigns. In our version of gestalt it is the loose rule version. yes if it says that it progresses an ability or class feature of some sort it stacks. so yes I can have that nice EBL of 35, also yes it is helpful to a binder to have a high EBL even w/o gestalt bc that means more vestiges to cram into myself.

Zaxter

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2010, 07:08:03 PM »
I don't think the number of vestiges you can bind is a function of your EBL (unless you're playing with some house rule that says you are -- you do seem to be playing with a lot of house rules). That said, some vestiges have abilities that are tied to your EBL, such as Amon's breath weapon, so having a high binder level wouldn't be a total waste. Just make sure you're binding the right vestiges.

jameswilliamogle

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2010, 11:20:11 PM »
I don't think the number of vestiges you can bind is a function of your EBL (unless you're playing with some house rule that says you are -- you do seem to be playing with a lot of house rules). That said, some vestiges have abilities that are tied to your EBL, such as Amon's breath weapon, so having a high binder level wouldn't be a total waste. Just make sure you're binding the right vestiges.
EBL determines the number of vestiges below 20th according to the chart, but past 20 then you get a new one every 5 (or is it 4?) EBL, in a flat formula.

Amechra

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2010, 12:26:42 AM »
Binding Dahlver Nar is always a favorite, just because you can channel damage back to them.

Insane Defiance would let you redirect anything with a will save back at your good friend the wizard.

Does your brother have the ability to cast spells while blind, deaf, and mute? Is he immune to those effects?

If no to both, there is an item named Contract of Nepthas that costs only 1400 gp, and applies those effects, with no save, if they renege the contract. SR does apply, which is the only bad part.

So, if you're allowed to bring prepped magic items into the fight, bring in that contract with a "thinking about casting a spell" clause under forbidden acts, and trick him into signing it.

Get some way of casting Feeblemind. Win everything.
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Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

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mBelchezere

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2010, 04:25:34 AM »
Again thanks for the ideas guys! I think I have my build figured out but I was wondering if there are any templates that offer a negative LA? If I can cut down some of my LA w/o really affecting my overall integrity than that would be awesome! Also if anyone has access to THE SECRETS OF PACT MAGIC and/or VILLAINS OF PACT MAGIC by Dario Nardi than you may appreciate where I'm going with my build bc I have decided to forgo the Binder from ToM for the Spirit Binder in SoPM but I can still use the Vestiges in ToM. The only 2 differences when using them are, I get the 8th lvl vestiges sooner and since they don't have a capstone ability I use pact augments instead.If anyone hasn't heard of these books check out http://www.pactmagic.com/download.htm for an idea of what I'm talking about. But still I really need ways to lower a high LA if possible, I'm already using some slick positioning and buy off, but its just not enough. I will post my build as soon as I can.

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2010, 06:46:10 AM »
can u do binder20//spirit binder20?            add your favorite PrCs ?         EBL40!  not including feats!!!
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TheEndIsNear

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2010, 10:14:44 AM »
Again thanks for the ideas guys! I think I have my build figured out but I was wondering if there are any templates that offer a negative LA? If I can cut down some of my LA w/o really affecting my overall integrity than that would be awesome! Also if anyone has access to THE SECRETS OF PACT MAGIC and/or VILLAINS OF PACT MAGIC by Dario Nardi than you may appreciate where I'm going with my build bc I have decided to forgo the Binder from ToM for the Spirit Binder in SoPM but I can still use the Vestiges in ToM. The only 2 differences when using them are, I get the 8th lvl vestiges sooner and since they don't have a capstone ability I use pact augments instead.If anyone hasn't heard of these books check out http://www.pactmagic.com/download.htm for an idea of what I'm talking about. But still I really need ways to lower a high LA if possible, I'm already using some slick positioning and buy off, but its just not enough. I will post my build as soon as I can.

There is one but u need to be a construct to take it like a warforged. It is called incarnate construct from savage species give a LA of -2. You do lose alot of abilities but not stat points.

Agita

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2010, 12:44:41 PM »
can u do binder20//spirit binder20?            add your favorite PrCs ?         EBL40!  not including feats!!!
No. Abilities that are progressed on both sides of a gestalt do not stack, just like a Rogue 20//Thug Fighter 20 wouldn't get Sneak Attack +20d6.
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daken201

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2010, 01:48:43 PM »
you would have two progressions of binding. with binder 20 soul binder 20....would still let you net a LOT of vestages though.

mBelchezere

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2010, 03:34:49 PM »
Believe me I've thought about just doing that build. It would give me an insane amount of vestiges/ spirits but I'm going for survivability against my *cough* overzealous *cough* brother....(brrrr think theres a chill in here)....More vestiges would be nice, it'd be really nice especially for options, but I'm possibly having to sack that EBL of 35+ for a template stacked survivor...i.e. I'm making a cockroach with binding :lmao thanks to my cockyness I have put my poor favored class in the meat grinder...I'm beginning to really hate casters...but oh well.

jameswilliamogle

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2010, 05:22:13 PM »
Consider doing Barbarian 2 and some Bloodlines on the Binder side.  The Instarage combo is just too good to pass up in an anti-Wizard build.

Barbarian 2 / Bloodline 2 / Binder / KoSS 5 / SoD 5 // Spirit Binder 20.

I have both .pdfs; I can't remember what the prestige classes are like, though.

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2010, 07:20:51 PM »
can u do binder20//spirit binder20?            add your favorite PrCs ?         EBL40!  not including feats!!!
No. Abilities that are progressed on both sides of a gestalt do not stack, just like a Rogue 20//Thug Fighter 20 wouldn't get Sneak Attack +20d6.

yes Agita, I know what you are saying, but the OP said that in his game EBL stacks across gestalt, I believe he's even allowed to take dual progression PrC's for this specific dual vs. a wizard//black ethergaunt, factotum(his brother, who is also reading this thread, so I'm sure he'll just prepare spells specifically against whatever is posted here anyway)
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daken201

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2010, 10:04:09 PM »
I already have my spells prepared, i am just trying to help him get a good build. I built the spell list to handle a binder. He knows he is going against a wizard and i know i am going against a binder. That is all the characters know. I do want him to have a chance at this.

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2010, 12:25:19 AM »
ok I miiiight have something here

Binder20(or spirit whatever EBL20)//Druid5,Planar Shepherd10, Druid5

planar shepherd picks Dal Quor(region of dreams) for 10:1 time ratio with planar bubble:(3/day for 10hours +1d10 rounds each time)

Use "Awe of Dantalion: When you invoke this ability (a move action), any creature that sees you is unable to attack you or target
you with a hostile spell for 1 round. If you attempt any hostile action, such as making an attack roll or casting an offensive
spell against the affected creature or its allies, the effect ends.  Once you have used this ability, you cannot do so again for
5 rounds." -Tome of Magic

I don't see a save anywhere in there....

just use this during the last turn of each of your 10 turns, and the wizard is as harmless as a kitten. 
just try not to die during the first turn if you lose initiative....
now u have 9 rounds to spam summons, trip, coup de grace, grapple, use improvised weapons it just doesn't matter

if there are 2 enemies, just use this ability every 5 rounds,  if there are 3,  this trick doesn't work as well
also beware of hostile actions that can be used against you during YOUR turn.
oh and you need to concentrate to keep planar bubble going

so if this works, it comes down to winning initiative
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2010, 03:14:22 AM »
Well, epic binders can create spheres of annihilation using the right vestige, right?

Plunge one of those into a well of worlds, and according to EE 142 you erase the material plane in 1d12+6 minutes.

You'll need to have 30 ranks of some knowledge skill, though; intelligent item rules cheesing is probably your best bet.

That's pretty much the only way I know to create an "end all binder". 
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 03:24:27 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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jameswilliamogle

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2010, 05:12:15 AM »
It is SO easy to get knowledge skills into the +30 as a Binder that you need hardly any ranks.  Check the handbook.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2010, 05:19:19 AM »
No, I mean the vestige requires the ranks.
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snakeman830

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2010, 11:10:12 AM »
No, I mean the vestige requires the ranks.
Too bad it's the feat that lets you bind the vestige (not really the vestige) that requires those ranks, otherwise Ignore Special Requirements would help a ton.
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jameswilliamogle

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2010, 03:49:15 PM »
Oh, right, but you have to be epic level to take those feats anyways, so it doesn't matter.  I don't think theres any way for a L20 or lower Binder to take them...  I did some work on that at one point.  The skill ranks are the crux.

TheEndIsNear

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Re: The end all binder....
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2010, 04:19:18 PM »
Whats a spirit/soul binder? Also where are the epic binder vestiges?