Author Topic: Pathfinder APG Shaman vs. Druid  (Read 13065 times)

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rasmuswagner

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Pathfinder APG Shaman vs. Druid
« on: August 24, 2010, 07:23:53 AM »
I will attempt a comparison between the shaman types described in the PF APG and the regular Druid.

First up, the Bear Shaman

Level 1: Advantage Druid. The Shaman must choose a Bear companion or from a smaller list of Domains. In return, he gets a conditional +4 bonus to Wild Empathy.
Level 2: Advantage: Shaman. The Shaman gets Totem Transformation, a neat utility or combat boost for one encounter.
Level 3: Advantage: Shaman. Two uses of Totem Transformation. Also, the shaman can take Multiattack or Improved Natural Attack ahead of the Druid.
Level 4: Advantage: Druid. He gets Wild Shape, the Shaman doesn't.
Level 5: Advantage: Druid. The Shaman can summon a young grizzly bear as a standard action with SNA III. The young bear has about twice the HP of other summons and the best AC and Grapple, and is a contender for best fighter all-round. But the Druid has Wild Shape 2/day.
Level 6: Advantage: Shaman. 3 uses of Wildshape per day to the Druids 2, although 2 of them has to be bear form. A Large or Huge bear is a decent combat form, the Shaman uses Beast Shape III, and has enough uses to be in bear form all day, even if he switches to a utility form for one encounter and then shapes back to bear.
Level 7: Advantage: Shaman. The Grizzly Bear, even with +7 Hp, is not a clear winner for SNA IV, but: Standard action to summon is still very, very nice.
Level 8: Tie. The Druid gets Elemental Body II and Plant Body I, none of which really do anything for him. The Shaman gets Elemental Body I for utility. The Druid finally gets Beast Shape III. The Shaman has more uses.
Level 9: Druid. Young Dire bear or Advanced/Giant Grizzly bear are not great contenders for SNA V. Venom Immunity is better than a bonus feat.
Level 10: Advantage: Druid. Elemental Body III is very nice.
Level 11: Tie. The shaman can still summon a second-rate animal with a standard action, but meh. Dire Tiger beats Dire Bear hands down.
Level 12: Druid. Elemental Form IV.
Level 13: Druid. Venom Immunity and a Thousand Faces vs. Totem transformation and two bonus feats.
Level 14: Shaman. Full wildshape now, and more uses per day.
Level 17: Shaman gets another feat.

Conclusion: Shaman is pretty sweet from level 2-4 and 5-8. The star abilities are the standard action SNA and the faster access to large/huge Wild Shape forms. He loses out a bit in versatility, and his advantages become inconsequential at high levels. 





rasmuswagner

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Re: Pathfinder APG Shaman vs. Druid
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 07:24:19 AM »
Eagle Shaman

Level 1: Even more limited than the Bear shaman, IMO. At least Weather is a very nice domain.
Level 2: Again, slightly worse option than the Bear shaman. Although lowlight vision and +4 Perception is a nice utility buff.
Level 5: Advantage: Eagle Shaman. Totemic Transformation gives the option of flight, up to 5 times per day. Summoning an Eagle with SNA I as a standard action isn't much of a boost, and the advanced/giant templates aren't worth it. a Young Giant Eagle as SNA III is far better than the Dire Bat.
Level 6: You can be a giant giant eagle or young roc rather than a giant dire bear, so you're specced for flight instead of grappling.
Level 7: Again, the giant eagle is not the obvious #1 summon on the SNA IV list, but, hey, standard action!
Level 9: The bonus feats available to Eagle shamans are much, much better. But still not as good as Venom Immunity.
Level 11: The Young Roc is a bit more fragile than the Air elemental, but is has better attacks, and two attacks with +28 grab vs. large or smaller opponents, and Fly 80'. Summonable as a standard action. This level goes to the Eagle shaman hands down.
Level 13: Again, summoning a Roc is not a bad choice. A better bonus feat than the bear shaman makes the loss of Venom Immunity easier to bear.
Level 15: A giant Roc is Colossal, and can easily fly away with a Purple Worm, the largest creature on the SNA VIII list. Advantage: shaman.

Conclusion: The Eagle shaman is better than I expected, and better balanced across the levels than the bear shaman.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 08:10:46 AM by rasmuswagner »

rasmuswagner

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Re: Pathfinder APG Shaman vs. Druid
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 07:24:42 AM »
Lion shaman

Best Totem transformations so far: +20' speed, natural attacks +2 grapple +2 rake attacks (better than Bear), also senses and communication.
Very good summons. SNA III has the leopard and cheetah. Lots of other options. The last feline is the Dire Tiger at SNA VI, where it's already one of the best. A giant Dire Tiger is a corner case for SNA VII but still worthwhile.
Bonus feats: Not spectacular, none of them are must-haves.

Conclusion: Lion beats bear. Lion outdamages Eagle at low to medium levels, but doesn't have the maneuvrability. Lion, like Bear, lacks impressive high-level summons.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 08:27:29 AM by rasmuswagner »

rasmuswagner

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Re: Pathfinder APG Shaman vs. Druid
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 07:25:07 AM »
Serpent Shaman

I predict suckitude, but let's see....

The usual limited choice of animal companions. It's going to suck at low levels. Con damage doesn't do much to an Orc, and being able to Grab and Constrict small enemies is not impressive either.

Totem transformation: A poisonous bite attack, natural armor, senses. The mobility power is interesting: A swim speed AND a climb speed.

Wild Shape: Very limited. At levels 6 and 7, the Shaman can flaunt the ability to Grab, Constrict and Poison in a large snake form. At higher levels, the druid can do everything the shaman does and more, and the shaman is limited to Large size if he wants to use his advantage.

Bonus feats: Whoa, one of the possible choices almost solves one of the problems with snake forms (Strike Back helps with reach). Not impressive.

Summons: The constrictor and viper are bad for their levels. The constrictor can be made Giant and summoned with SNA IV, where both grizzly, owlbear and tiger can beat it at it's own game.

Conclusion: Exactly as sucky as predicted. With more options for wildshape and summoning it might get better, but right now it gets a big fat NO.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 08:49:25 AM by rasmuswagner »

rasmuswagner

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Re: Pathfinder APG Shaman vs. Druid
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 07:25:25 AM »
Wolf shaman

Canines in the bestiary: Dog, riding dog, wolf, Dire wolf. They mostly have one attack, trip, and good movement.

Totemic transformation: very good choices. +20' speed, lowlight+scent+4 to follow tracks, bite attack 1d4 + trip (weird image).

Wild shape: The Shaman gets full value for the ability to shift into Huge canine form with the Giant Dire Wolf. The Wolf Shaman is a tripping skirmisher, rather than a grabber or pouncer.

Bonus feats: Okay. There are some feats here that I love to see on a bonus list, and they synergize well with canine wild shapes. But you still have to meet prerequisites, so whatever.

Summons: Riding dog is very good for SNA I or II. Standard action summons is even better. 1d3 Giant or Advanced Riding dogs is very good for SNA III. The Dire wolf comes in at SNA IV - Tiger or Lion is probably better, but: standard action. Giant dire wolf at SNA V is pretty bad, and the shaman doesn't get anything at higher levels.

Conclusion: A good summoner at low levels. A good skirmisher in wild shape. All round, a decent low level alternative.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 09:28:12 AM by rasmuswagner »

juton

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Re: Pathfinder APG Shaman vs. Druid
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 07:47:41 PM »
Wolf domain is tempting just because it lets you choose the Travel domain. Other than that I think you might be giving up a bit too much by going Shaman, part of Wildshape's power is it's versatility and a Shaman is just less versatile.