Full Initiators That Ignore Strikes

[Sinfire Titan]

Warblade Levels count as Fighter levels -2 for prerequisites.  Thus, a Fighter4/Warblade1 counts as a Fighter3 in terms of prereqs, and messes with my sensibilities, especially if I have Weapon Specialization.

Yeah, that makes no sense: I did Warbalde 1, and I no longer qualify for Weapon Specialization.

[SorO_Lost]

Warblade Levels count as Fighter levels -2 for prerequisites.  Thus, a Fighter4/Warblade1 counts as a Fighter3 in terms of prereqs, and messes with my sensibilities, especially if I have Weapon Specialization.

Yeah, that makes no sense: I did Warbalde 1, and I no longer qualify for Weapon Specialization.

o.O

Don't use Weapon Aptitude to qualify, use your fighter level instead.

[CrimsonDeath]

Warblade Levels count as Fighter levels -2 for prerequisites.  Thus, a Fighter4/Warblade1 counts as a Fighter3 in terms of prereqs, and messes with my sensibilities, especially if I have Weapon Specialization.

Yeah, that makes no sense: I did Warbalde 1, and I no longer qualify for Weapon Specialization.

o.O

Don't use Weapon Aptitude to qualify, use your fighter level instead.

Except you're not "using" Weapon Aptitude.  You just flat-out have Weapon Aptitude.  (The class feature really ought to say that Weapon Aptitude starts having that effect at class level 3 or at least that Weapon Aptitude can't reduce effective Fighter level, and it's a reasonable interpretation.  However, as written, a level 1 Warblade counts as a level -1 Fighter, and that explicitly stacks with any actual fighter levels.)

[altpersona]

ug, so fighter 1 / warblade 1 counts as fighter 0.

[DrPhro]

I guess this qualifies as unoptimization, but it's not like you're missing out on much.

[Sinfire Titan]

ug, so fighter 1 / warblade 1 counts as fighter 0.

Yeah, so another reason Weapon Spec sucks: Divide By Weapon Aptitude=Fail.

[CrimsonDeath]

Personally, I never liked the idea of feats that require a level in a particular class.  Would Weapon Specialization really be that much more powerful with a prerequisite of +4 BAB?

[Saxony]

I think it's more to give fighters something just for fighters.

Why there are restrictions functioning off fighter level?

...So no one dips fighter to steal all the "fighter only" feats?

[veekie]

It might have worked....if any of those feats are worth anything.

[Saxony]

It might have worked....if any of those feats are worth anything.

Exactly.

[SorO_Lost]

Except you're not "using" Weapon Aptitude.  You just flat-out have Weapon Aptitude.

Weapon Aptitude does not say your fighter level is X, it says you qualify for X using (warblade-2)+fighter. You still have your fighter levels.

If you were Bard 10 and picked up a level in Sublime Chord, both casting sides qualify for Abjuration Champion. By your logic, I've lost 1st level bardic spells at this point.

[snakeman830]

Except you're not "using" Weapon Aptitude.  You just flat-out have Weapon Aptitude.

Weapon Aptitude does not say your fighter level is X, it says you qualify for X using (warblade-2)+fighter. You still have your fighter levels.

If you were Bard 10 and picked up a level in Sublime Chord, both casting sides qualify for Abjuration Champion. By your logic, I've lost 1st level bardic spells at this point.

Not at all.  Since ((Warblade-2)+Fighter) is less than (Fighter), you may disqualify yourself from Weapon Specialization or something similar.  This is basic math.  Yes, you still have the Fighter levels, but (Warblade-2) can easily equal -1, so you have (Fighter-1) levels for meeting prerequisites.

Sublime Chord casting, on the other hand, is a completely seperate set of casting.

[CrimsonDeath]

Except you're not "using" Weapon Aptitude.  You just flat-out have Weapon Aptitude.

Weapon Aptitude does not say your fighter level is X, it says you qualify for X using (warblade-2)+fighter. You still have your fighter levels.

If you were Bard 10 and picked up a level in Sublime Chord, both casting sides qualify for Abjuration Champion. By your logic, I've lost 1st level bardic spells at this point.

Again, you are not "using" an effective Fighter level from Warblade.  Warblade provides an effective Fighter level with which you may qualify for feats, and that effective Fighter level stacks with your actual fighter level.  Sadly, as the ability is written, your effective Fighter level due to Warblade levels can be negative.  (This is not how I would adjudicate the situation as a DM.  It is simply the way the math works out due to poor editing.)

Also, Sublime Chord does not qualify for Abjurant Champion because a Sublime Chord cannot cast 1st level spells.  Gladly, Bards can, Abjurant Champion doesn't care what level spells a particular class can cast when it advances that class's spellcasting, and Sublime Chord does not modify spells known or available spell slots of other spellcasting classes (and I have no idea what "logic" you thought I was using that would imply that).  Note that a Bard 9/Sorcerer 1 could drop his Bard caster level down to 2 upon adding a level of Sublime Chord (by determining Sublime Chord caster level based on the sum of Sublime Chord and Sorcerer), although I can't readily think of any good reason to do so as opposed to the alternative (or even a good reason to play such a character in the first place).  However, this wouldn't change the Bard's spells known or spell slots, only the level-dependent parameters of his spells.

[JaronK]

Weapon Aptitude reads: "You qualify for feats that usually require a minimum number of fighter levels (such as Weapon Specialization) as if you had a fighter level equal to your warblade level -2... These effective fighter levels stack with any actual fighter levels you have."

That's not optional.  That's just how it works... you don't get to chose not to use it, any more than you could chose not to be effected by a War Hulk's "No Time To Think" ability or chose not to use the Blighter's ability to lose its Druid casting.  So yes, it does lead to the silliness that a Warblade 1/Fighter 4 doesn't qualify for Weapon Specialization even though a Fighter 4 does, because you now qualify for it as though you had (-1+4) Fighter levels.  Moral of the story: don't dip 1 level of Warblade if you really care about Weapon Specialization so much.

I have no idea where this bit about Bards and Sublime Chords comes from.

JaronK