Author Topic: I'm new, let me pick your brain.  (Read 3392 times)

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Deusnocturne

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I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« on: August 16, 2010, 09:41:44 AM »
Okay folks I haven't played in a long while (about a year) and I'm just getting back into it. What better way then a good ole fashioned hell-crawl? My only problem I have no idea what to play.... The rules are Pathfinder or any 3.5 book (pending GM approval), we each get one custom item ranging somewhere in equivalency of a +9 enhancement bonus (let your imagination run freeeeeeee) and currently our group consists of way too much melee so I need something ranged, So optimize me a 16th level RANGED character preferably non magical or light on the magic ready to traipse through hell. Also I have a strong preference for the roguish or pretty much anything that does precision-esque damage, thanks in advance.

borg286

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2010, 12:11:37 PM »
My vote is for artificer using wands galore, but this goes strongly against your low-magic desire, and due to you doing a hell-bash, downtime is going to get sweaty and dangerous.

My second vote is for a debuffing aburation wizard. With that much melee 1x debuff = dead.  My personal favorite is fell drain with auto-damaging spells that damage multiple times(magic missile).  Each negative level reduces their saves, attack, HP, top spells(very useful against spellcasters), and doesn't cost too much for the metamagic.  Since you're wanting ranged gishes are out of the picture. 


emaNsdrawkcaB

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2010, 01:51:00 PM »
...preferably non magical or light on the magic...

...

...artificer ...wands ...debuffing aburation wizard...fell drain...spells...(magic missile)...metamagic...gishes...

PhaedrusXY

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2010, 02:31:19 PM »
Level 16, traipsing through hell, and non-magic don't generally go together very well, unless you like dying horribly and/or being useless.

BackwardsName's build looks pretty decent at glance, though.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

borg286

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2010, 02:34:36 PM »
...preferably non magical or light on the magic...

...

...artificer ...wands ...debuffing aburation wizard...fell drain...spells...(magic missile)...metamagic...gishes...

...
I saw the non magical and thought of a low magic item world, thus the more self sustaining wizard.  I really like this flying bow-man, but I must ask why do you prefer the light on the magic side?  Is it fluff preference, or trying to steer away from cheese, or are you trying to take full advantage of this free +9 magic item?

Maat_Mons

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2010, 02:36:45 PM »
It seems I was beaten to suggesting soulbow.  

Savage Species has a magic item called necklace of natural attacks that imbues your natural weapons with the properties of a magic weapon.  Since you get a custom item, ask the DM if you can get an analog of this for your mind blade.  It will cost 600 gp more than two copies of the magic weapon (minus the cost of masterwork weapons) if you want to be able to use it with two-weapon fighting.  

The weapon property you really want is splitting, from Champions of Ruin.  This costs +3 and splits every arrow you fire into two arrows, doubling all non-precision damage.  I assume this is figured into s'emaNsdrawkcaB numbers, though you actually only make one attack roll for each pair of arrows.  

I'd consider spending fewer feats on two weapon fighting.  You can take two-weapon fighting (with 9 dex and gloves of dexterity +6) and wear gloves of the balanced hand, from the Magic Item Compendium, which give you improved two-weapon fighting if you already have two-weapon fighting and only cost 8,000 gp.  You don't get the last off-hand attack at -10, but I'm not sure that's worth two feats.  

Using the guidelines for combining magic items (with updates in the Magic Item Compendium), gloves that give you +1 splitting mind arrows, +6 dexterity, and improved two-weapon fighting would cost 112,600 gp, well under the 162,000 gp of a +9 weapon.  

I'd consider a divine gish for the 13 levels that aren't required to get mind arrows.  Someone should have some utility magic, and you only need to lose 1 point of base attack bonus to get some decent divine casting.  
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 02:39:09 PM by Maat_Mons »

Shadowhunter

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2010, 02:51:06 PM »
Swift Hunter.

Human Scout 4/Ranger 11/Cleric of Farlaghn 1, have your custom item be a splitting bow, grab improved skirmish, go to town.

Scout 3/Ranger 6/Scout +1/Cleric 1/Ranger +5

1 Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
3 OPEN
5 Rapid Shot
6 Swift Hunter
9 Manyshot, OPEN
10 Improved Skirmish
12 Travel Devotion
15 OPEN

If travel devotion "abuse" isn't allowed, use the open slot at lvl 9 to get Greater Manyshot, since the greater version adds precision damage to each arrow.
Then just skip the cleric level and take one more ranger. Do note that it suffers from some XP penalties, so if your group use those rules, perhaps it just would be easiest to go with the G. Manyshot option.

If you can get Dragon Compendium allowed, weapon focus (your bow) and Deadeye from there adds +1 to hit and DEX to damage against targets within 30' of you, as long as you use your bow.

+++EDIT+++

Quote
The weapon property you really want is splitting, from Champions of Ruin.  This costs +3 and splits every arrow you fire into two arrows, doubling all non-precision damage.  I assume this is figured into s'emaNsdrawkcaB numbers, though you actually only make one attack roll for each pair of arrows. 

Actually, you're wrong.
Splitting clearly states that you roll two dice, one for each attack. So precision damage apply to both.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 02:54:11 PM by Shadowhunter »
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

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(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

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[/quote]
[/spoiler]

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PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2010, 07:05:15 PM »
Level 16, traipsing through hell, and non-magic don't generally go together very well, unless you like dying horribly
This.  :lmao
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
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And healed. Don't forget that.
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emaNsdrawkcaB

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2010, 07:57:25 PM »
Okay, wait. Did you mean light on magic usage (i.e. Wizard=no, Cleric=no) or light on magic items, or both?

In any case, let me know if you''re interested in a Soulbow, I''ll tailor to your needs.

raith0

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2010, 10:33:03 PM »
i could throw out a build but please first let us know do you want to not be reliant on magic or magic items and how are you generating stats?

ron

Deusnocturne

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2010, 01:08:03 AM »
Sorry I took so long to get back to you about it, let me clarify... I would prefer to be light on magic not magic items, since our party currently consists of a fighter, barbar, cleric (close range beat em up style), pally(smite whore), witch, Sorc, & myself. I just felt like something that was non-magic ranged might be a good addition considering as I understand it some of my fellow player get pissy when their toes get stepped on, plus taking full advantage of that special magic item would be great.

That soulbow build looks mighty fun, i had been considering the zen archer alternate monk class from pathfinder since it gets to flurry with bows, but soulbow seems like a better option, stats were rolled and I ended up with (before any modification)
18
15
15
14
14
14
pretty average, I know but its what I got to work with.... thanks again guys I'll check back with you later tonight.

Gavinfoxx

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2010, 01:20:11 AM »
those are NOOT Average stats if you rolled them. Those are GREAT stats!  4d6 drop lowest is the 'normal' way to roll stats.  What were you using?

Which version of the 'witch' class? The DMG one? One of the Spirit Shaman type characters? Favored Soul? Shujenga?

Sorcerer does what in particular? Blasty damage sorcerer? Utility Sorcerer? What do they focus on?

A melee focused Cleric is TOTALLY going to step on the fighter and paladin's toes. TOTALLY and UTTERLY. Everything the fighter or paladin can do, the melee cleric can do BETTER.

If you want to have a discussion about "how to play D&D 3.5e without stepping on toes", point EVERYONE who might get upset WHEN their toes are stepped on to this thread:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0

In fact, just copy and paste a few relevant sections from that (mostly the first few posts, where it explains how the system works, and why certain classes are in certain tiers, and how different tiers would solve problems, and such) into a word document and print it out with some highlighted portions and pass it around.

I notice there isn't a skillful character in the group... maybe you should consider a skill focused one?
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Deusnocturne

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2010, 04:15:05 AM »
Standard rolling was used, I guess what I mean by average is I would rather have had a second high stat and a low stat to make for a more dynamic character...

The pathfinder advanced player's guide version of witch (interesting and quite fun) basically uses hexes to debuff and has an arcane spell list based mostly on abjuration and enchantment/necromancy effects.

the Sorc I think may be intending to do an eldritch knight of sorts so likely buff spells and stuff like flame whips....

agreed whole heartedly, however I'll let them sort out their own in group issues as long as it doesn't involve me. (sometimes they can be quite childish....you'd never know they were in their 20's....)

i thought about making a skill monkey and my ultimate conclusion is that I'm getting the feeling the game will be kind of munchkin so I don't know how useful i would actually be in that scenario.

emaNsdrawkcaB

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2010, 04:24:22 AM »
What''s your thoughts on Tome of Battle material? Do you consider maneuvers to be too magicky?

Deusnocturne

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2010, 04:30:04 AM »
I hadn't even considered that, I love the tome of battle and I don't consider it too magicky.

emaNsdrawkcaB

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2010, 04:47:39 AM »
Flaws?

Deusnocturne

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2010, 05:05:21 AM »
Not likely.

Deusnocturne

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2010, 05:35:46 AM »
After a thorough look I really think soulbow sounds like a winner but I'm not sure if VoP would be worth the loss of a GM created item, so if emaNsdrawkcaB wants to tailor the build some or anyone else has suggestions, i'd love to hear them.

=====EDIT=====

Also, I'm not sure how much people here use Pathfinder but I feel like there may be some good feat choices there for the soulbow but I'd rather leave that to those of you who know the class well, unlike myself.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 05:47:12 AM by Deusnocturne »

Saxony

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2010, 07:07:40 AM »
Soulbow requires the Lucky weapon enhancement for their attacks since it applies to every attack (since every attack is a new weapon).

It makes them very accurate.
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carnivore

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Re: I'm new, let me pick your brain.
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2010, 07:35:48 AM »
i also like the Soulbow build that emaNsdrawkcaB posted  ... very nice

i would do it a little different ... will see if i can get something later

 :D