Questions of D&D (LoE problems)

[spacemonkey555]

Not sure if anyone is going to shoot that down.  A 12k gp item that can warp space in a way spells cannot?  ...  XD

Any idea on what happens when a wall of force is "warped" in a way that ends up with it inside a wall?

there's nothing to shoot down

Theres a solution to any "problem" you present, and they all involve the dm having your quest for knowledge destroy your item, end your spell, or even end your character's life if you continue trying to play physics geek instead of wizard.

If the whole group wants to play physics geek, thats fine, but it doesn't have much to do with dnd, where such problems are always solved with the generic "you're shunted to the nearest open space, taking 1d6 per 10' travelled" rule. If you want a nuclear explosion from colocating 2 physical objects, try gurps or some other game.

[Amechra]

Wait, do Walls of Force have hit points?

If not, who takes the damage?

[jseah]

^spacemonkey:
I'm not looking for an explosion or something.  I was looking for a logical result. 

Then again, a game where the GM is likely to arbitrarily screw you over for thinking too hard is not a game you should try this in.  XD


^Amechra:
Walls of Force are immune to damage.  They do not have hitpoints. 

Moving walls of force (by warping space) into other walls of force is like the invulnerable shield meeting the unstoppable spear. 

[veekie]

Moving walls of force (by warping space) into other walls of force is like the invulnerable shield meeting the unstoppable spear.  

Unless the motive force itself is infinite, or the shield truly immobile, theres no conflict.
What happens when an ordinary guy takes a steel spear and rams it into a steel wall?
His hand gives way.

[jseah]

^veekie:
If the portal is viewed as a warp in space, there is no motive force.  After all, as Amechra described it, the wall of force isn't actually moving...

[PhaedrusXY]

^veekie:
If the portal is viewed as a warp in space, there is no motive force.  After all, as Amechra described it, the wall of force isn't actually moving...

So there is no spoon?

[Beltendu]

I suppose you could always argue that you can't put any part of the Wall of Force through the Ring Gate.  Movement is defined as change in position, and putting any part of the wall through the Ring Gate causes that part of the wall to change position. 

Of course, too far down THAT road lies the means to cause your planet to become stationary with respect to the universe as a whole ...   But then, this entire thing is basically an absurdity for the purposes of entertaining our brains ...

[veekie]

Motive force is applied to the warp in space, which is transferred via the perfect force conductor that is the Wall.

[spacemonkey555]

^spacemonkey:
I'm not looking for an explosion or something.  I was looking for a logical result. 

Then again, a game where the GM is likely to arbitrarily screw you over for thinking too hard is not a game you should try this in.  XD


^Amechra:
Walls of Force are immune to damage.  They do not have hitpoints. 

Moving walls of force (by warping space) into other walls of force is like the invulnerable shield meeting the unstoppable spear. 

You're looking for logical results in a game where people summon genies to make wishes, talk to dragons, and cast magic spells? You fail at looking for logical results. Try the planet earth next time.

The dm wouldn't be screwing you over if he rule 0'd your ring gate breaking from the punishment you're putting on it, he'd be getting the heroic fantasy game back on track, which you're trying to derail by applying external rulesets that the game shouldn't be made to accommodate. Seriously, did you try to talk your way out of losing a game of chess because your opponent's pawn just shouldn't be able to kill your rook? Cause seriously, I mean ones a serf and ones a castle, it makes no sense! Just relax and play the game everyone else is playing.

As a thought experiment, I'd be much more inclined to consider what you were asking if you actually found some combination that broke the game or required resolution. Either you didn't finish reading the wall of force spell, or you're ignoring the part where it says the spell fails if the wall's surface is broken by any object. You just found a novel way to end the spell, full stop.

[jseah]

The dm wouldn't be screwing you over if he rule 0'd your ring gate breaking from the punishment you're putting on it, he'd be getting the heroic fantasy game back on track, which you're trying to derail by applying external rulesets that the game shouldn't be made to accommodate.
<...>
Just relax and play the game everyone else is playing.

I did state earlier that I was trying to find areas in the rules that sounded weird upon reading.  Mainly that the way ring gates worked sounded too good to not try to break. 

As a thought experiment, I'd be much more inclined to consider what you were asking if you actually found some combination that broke the game or required resolution. Either you didn't finish reading the wall of force spell, or you're ignoring the part where it says the spell fails if the wall's surface is broken by any object. You just found a novel way to end the spell, full stop.

"The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails. "
Ok, I was under the impression that restriction was only at casting time. 

Turns out, it's all the time.  Never mind then, the question is answered. 

[nijineko]

it occurs to me to ask which plane the ring gates are using to function. as walls of force can be bypassed by some, but not by others. the planar characteristics might be a deciding factor, even if the unbroken bit is not continous.

[Echoes]

You're looking for logical results in a game where people summon genies to make wishes, talk to dragons, and cast magic spells? You fail at looking for logical results. Try the planet earth next time.

Stop. You officially fail logic forever. Logical =/= true, nor does it mean realistic.

The dm wouldn't be screwing you over if he rule 0'd your ring gate breaking from the punishment you're putting on it, he'd be getting the heroic fantasy game back on track, which you're trying to derail by applying external rulesets that the game shouldn't be made to accommodate. Seriously, did you try to talk your way out of losing a game of chess because your opponent's pawn just shouldn't be able to kill your rook? Cause seriously, I mean ones a serf and ones a castle, it makes no sense! Just relax and play the game everyone else is playing.

D&D operates under real-world physics unless a rule (spell, skill, feat, etc) functions otherwise. Your chess analogy is irrelevant, because the rules of chess never claim to operate under real-world physics.

As a thought experiment, I'd be much more inclined to consider what you were asking if you actually found some combination that broke the game or required resolution. Either you didn't finish reading the wall of force spell, or you're ignoring the part where it says the spell fails if the wall's surface is broken by any object. You just found a novel way to end the spell, full stop.

A ring gate is a permanent portal through which line of effect can be drawn. Or are you claiming that you can't put a wall of force through a doorway? Because that's all a ring gate is. The gate itself is not an object any more than a gate spell creates an object. So long as the ring is of sufficient dimensions to encircle the wall in some fashion, there is no interference.

[snakeman830]

If a Large (or larger) creature is falling, and you cast Wall of Force through the center of the space beneath it, what happens?

[Amechra]

Note to self: Use Wall of Force+Ring Gate on a Collosal Epic character as an unbreakable sword.

What?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Isn't that what riverine is?

[Amechra]

Isn't that what riverine is?

True

[spacemonkey555]

You're looking for logical results in a game where people summon genies to make wishes, talk to dragons, and cast magic spells? You fail at looking for logical results. Try the planet earth next time.

Stop. You officially fail logic forever. Logical =/= true, nor does it mean realistic.

The dm wouldn't be screwing you over if he rule 0'd your ring gate breaking from the punishment you're putting on it, he'd be getting the heroic fantasy game back on track, which you're trying to derail by applying external rulesets that the game shouldn't be made to accommodate. Seriously, did you try to talk your way out of losing a game of chess because your opponent's pawn just shouldn't be able to kill your rook? Cause seriously, I mean ones a serf and ones a castle, it makes no sense! Just relax and play the game everyone else is playing.

D&D operates under real-world physics unless a rule (spell, skill, feat, etc) functions otherwise. Your chess analogy is irrelevant, because the rules of chess never claim to operate under real-world physics.

As a thought experiment, I'd be much more inclined to consider what you were asking if you actually found some combination that broke the game or required resolution. Either you didn't finish reading the wall of force spell, or you're ignoring the part where it says the spell fails if the wall's surface is broken by any object. You just found a novel way to end the spell, full stop.

A ring gate is a permanent portal through which line of effect can be drawn. Or are you claiming that you can't put a wall of force through a doorway? Because that's all a ring gate is. The gate itself is not an object any more than a gate spell creates an object. So long as the ring is of sufficient dimensions to encircle the wall in some fashion, there is no interference.

Yey another tard that wants to break the rules without reading them, or by just ignoring key points, for the sake of trolling/argument.
"No my magical item isn't an object!"

You can argue that 2 sections of wall of force separated by 100 yards by an effect from an object aren't broken by that object (even while they're being joined by that object) but I don't think anyone will care what you come up with. Have fun.

Also, you fail at realizing a word can have more than one definition. Seeking a solution to contrived problems in an obsolete collaborative storytelling system is not logical. The problems will obviously remain unsolved, except in a real game, where the dm will solve them for you. Sure, its a logical conundrum, but that doesn't mean its logical or productive to try to solve it on a practical optimization board.

I guess I'll check for your answer in a couple months, mr. necromancer, just for giggles. Cya then 

[Echoes]

Yey another tard that wants to break the rules without reading them, or by just ignoring key points, for the sake of trolling/argument.
"No my magical item isn't an object!"

Yay, ad hominem attacks. I can do it too: fuck you.

You can argue that 2 sections of wall of force separated by 100 yards by an effect from an object aren't broken by that object (even while they're being joined by that object) but I don't think anyone will care what you come up with. Have fun.

Except they aren't separated by 100 yards as far as the wall is concerned. That's what the gate does. The gate doesn't move shit, it creates a wormhole physically linking two points of space. Or do you really believe that sticking your head through a gate would decapitate you?

Also, you fail at realizing a word can have more than one definition. Seeking a solution to contrived problems in an obsolete collaborative storytelling system is not logical. The problems will obviously remain unsolved, except in a real game, where the dm will solve them for you. Sure, its a logical conundrum, but that doesn't mean its logical or productive to try to solve it on a practical optimization board.

Yes, logic has a few different definitions. The problem is, none of them are what you're blathering on about. Please, just stop going on about logic. You clearly don't understand what it means.

[archangel.arcanis]

D&D operates under real-world physics unless a rule (spell, skill, feat, etc) functions otherwise. Your chess analogy is irrelevant, because the rules of chess never claim to operate under real-world physics.

I wanted to address this really quick. You are partly correct. You can't really apply real world physics like that in many cases because it would break down and the game would be unplayable. For instance using an immovable rod would rip your arm out of socket due to the planet rotating around the sun a thousands of miles an hour, and that is assuming your hand lets go under the forces. There are tons of immovable object vs unstoppable force questions that would come up as well. In the in the DM is the arbiter of any conflicts so while there may be a case for the logic of something the game world may just need it to not function to keep the world going.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I wanted to address this really quick. You are partly correct. You can't really apply real world physics like that in many cases because it would break down and the game would be unplayable. For instance using an immovable rod would rip your arm out of socket due to the planet rotating around the sun a thousands of miles an hour, and that is assuming your hand lets go under the forces.

that actually makes a ton of assumptions that aren't really borne out at all.