Author Topic: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!  (Read 7707 times)

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Endarire

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My DM mastered a technique to help ensure he rolls high on d20s.  He reliably gets a 14 or higher.

At present, I'm a Conjurer5/Swordsage1/Incantatrix3.  I hoped to use (ranged) touch spells or spells with no saves to hurt or hamper foes.  Where can I find these?
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veekie

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2010, 06:43:36 AM »
The Walls/Fogs are pretty good for this, but are a bit tricky to position.
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weenog

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2010, 07:25:23 AM »
Crowd control that doesn't allow saves?  I think that's called Summon Monster.

DM cheating his rolls? That's just childish.  Guy's already got Rule 0, what else does he need to feel like a big man?
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weenog

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2010, 08:04:59 AM »
Black tentacles is awesome, but it does involve opposed grapple checks, aren't those still going to be a problem when the DM's not rolling straight?

Course SM Whatever won't be much better if he's using one of those freakish AC roll variants.
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Empirate

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2010, 08:29:49 AM »
Web. Solid Fog. Wall of Ice. Sleet Storm. Fog Cloud. (Extended) Ice Storm. (Extended) Gust of Wind. Summon Monster III or IV (these are good ones for the level). There's much, much more out there!

bearchucks

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2010, 10:32:49 AM »
http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20spellfilter/

Throw into your search "no save" and "Wizard" (Conjuration if you want greater precision) and then trawl through limiting your search to spells by spell level.  Only good for core, but it's a handy tool for that.
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Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2010, 11:25:41 AM »
Black tentacles is awesome, but it does involve opposed grapple checks, aren't those still going to be a problem when the DM's not rolling straight?

Course SM Whatever won't be much better if he's using one of those freakish AC roll variants.

Yes, but I think that the grappling check scales a lot easier with caster levels comparing to your DCs.
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veekie

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2010, 11:33:17 AM »
Much easier yes, unless your opponent is big or otherwise grappling optimised, the tentacles almost always win.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2010, 11:48:52 AM »
Be a bitch and take levels in opti-fu'd shadowcraft mage. The higher your saving throw roll, the more damage you're likely to take.
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Hallack

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2010, 12:16:06 PM »
My DM mastered a technique to help ensure he rolls high on d20s.  He reliably gets a 14 or higher.

At present, I'm a Conjurer5/Swordsage1/Incantatrix3.  I hoped to use (ranged) touch spells or spells with no saves to hurt or hamper foes.  Where can I find these?

Wow, what a load of crap. 

Can you get Hunter's Mercy or other additional means of damage to use with your no save spells?  Perhaps Extra Spell depending on your DM's use of errata?

Who else is in the party?  In addition to control party buffing might be a good way around your DM's crap.   
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2010, 01:15:02 PM »
My DM mastered a technique to help ensure he rolls high on d20s.  He reliably gets a 14 or higher.
That's called CHEATING! I think you should learn to "master" your rolls, and see how he reacts to that! (Then go with Black Tentacles, since your cheating can oppose his cheating.)
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sir_argenon

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2010, 01:18:55 PM »
use one of the many internet based dice roller apps.

veekie

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2010, 02:09:50 PM »
My DM mastered a technique to help ensure he rolls high on d20s.  He reliably gets a 14 or higher.
That's called CHEATING! I think you should learn to "master" your rolls, and see how he reacts to that! (Then go with Black Tentacles, since your cheating can oppose his cheating.)
Well, its not that hard to control a dice throw, especially if you use large dice.
The solution, make the rolling area as uneven and cluttered as possible to get maximum bounce to screw up estimates.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Solo

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2010, 03:06:32 PM »
Throw the dice into a bowl.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

veekie

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2010, 03:09:08 PM »
^^
That's actually predictable, with a little practice, if you already know how to mess with the dice, just a little harder.
To be unpredictable you need an uneven table of junk to bounce off of.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Solo

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2010, 03:10:16 PM »
A bowl full of flesh eating pirhannas.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2010, 03:22:59 PM »
Find a DM that isn't a prick. Problem solved.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2010, 05:34:51 PM »
Switch out his dice for reverse-loaded dice
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Re: Seeking Wizard crowd control spells that don't rely on saves!
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2010, 07:42:15 PM »
http://www.gamestation.net/search.htm?keyword=Gamescience

Get him a more random D20, and have him roll it in sight of everyone.
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