Good ways to deal Ability Damage

[Rebel7284]

It is assumed in D&D that most combat encounters are ultimately resolved via hit point damage.  However, most creatures have 6 stats.  Getting any of those stats to 0 disables the creature just as effectively as hit point damage.  Moreover, while dealing hitpoint damage generally has no effect on the creature's combat ability - after all, a troll at 1 hit point hits as hard as a troll at 30 hit points - dealing ability damage will often also debuff the creature in significant ways.

Cons: There are more creatures immune to ability damage than there are creatures that are immune to hit point damage.

I want to create a list of effective ways to deal ability damage.  I will not be adding poisons as there already is a guide to poisons here: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0

This is what I have so far:
Strength
Spells
 Moon Bolt (SpC)
Class Features
 Rogue 10 - Crippling Strike (Core)

Dexterity
Spells
 Shivering Touch, Lesser (Frostburn)
 Shivering Touch (Frostburn)

Constitution
Spells
 Cloudkill (Core)
Weapon Qualities
 Wounding (Core)

Intelligence
Spells
 Ray of Stupidity (SpC)

Wisdom
Weapon Qualities
 Mindcrusher (MiC)

Charisma
Powers
 Ego Whip (XPH)
Feats
 Maiming Strike (EoE)

[Empirate]

I've been working on a handbook for this. After getting together 6 or 7 Word pages, I ran out of steam. Not much seems to go on in 3.5 land anymore, so I figured it wasn't really worth the effort. I could email you what I got so far if you're interested. PM me if you are.

[Rebel7284]

PM sent

[bearchucks]

Rogue10 Crippling Strike (Str)
Touch of Idiocy (Reach Spell or Spectral Hand lets you make it not touch any more if you want/need that) 1d6 damage to each of the mentals.
Any number of undead incorporeal touches

And things are still happening in 3.5-land.

[Rebel7284]

Touch of Idiocy applies a penalty according to its text.

Edit: uh, Rogue 10 is WAY farther into Rogue than most people want to go, but it's a good ability so added.

[zioth]

Don't forget Wounding weapons for constitution damage.

[Rebel7284]

Added

[Slaughterhouserock]

This thread has a list of some spells that deal ability damage.

[JaronK]

Poison can be good, especially if it's all plant matter based so you can make plenty of it free (or nearly so) with Minor Creation.  Black Lotus does 3d6 con/3d6 con damage, DC 20, while Sinmaker's Surprise does 2d6 con/2d6 con with some acid damage at DC 24.  Combined with poison save boosters (Assassination weapons being the best) and save reducers (terrifying strike, sickening strike) this can get difficult to resist, especially when put on arrows that are fired en masse.

JaronK

[veekie]

For the Penalty type, they're still worth noting I think, since you can use them to 'tenderise' an opponent before bringing his effective stat to 0. Sure he'll get back up eventually, but you only need him down for the fight.

[Rebel7284]

For the Penalty type, they're still worth noting I think, since you can use them to 'tenderise' an opponent before bringing his effective stat to 0. Sure he'll get back up eventually, but you only need him down for the fight.

It's debatable if it works.  A penalty can't bring a stat to 0.  So what happens when a 10 Dex creature is hit with a Shivering touch for 8 and then takes a -4 penalty to Dex from a spell?  Does it change if the spell order is reversed?

[veekie]

Hmm, point, any RAW on the matter?

[the_shadowmind]

The weakling shadowcaster has flesh fails, and afraid of the dark.
Afraid of the Dark is 1d6+1/4 level(max +5) wisdom damage, will half.
Flesh fails is 4 STR, 4 DEX, or 2 CON damage Touch, no save.
Flesh fails greater, close range, one creature/level in a 20 ft radius spread, 6 STR, 6 DEX, or 4 CON, same choice applies to all.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Not much seems to go on in 3.5 land anymore

I do not understand this gibberish!

[Empirate]

Well, haven't you noticed how slow this forum is getting? Do you know of any 3.5 sites that still go strong?


Regarding ability penalties and ability damage: I think it's rather straightforward. If you have Str 13, take 6 points of Str penalty from being exhausted, and take 9 points of Str damage from a Shadow's touch, you're now at Str 4, effective Str 1. The Str damage directly reduces your ability score, while the penalty only modifies your effective ability score.

A more interesting question would be: If you get a Str bonus from somewhere, does it still apply when your base ability score is reduced to zero? For example, you're Str 13, under the effect of a Bull's Strength spell, and get Str damaged by a Shadow for exactly 13 points. Do you die and turn into a Shadow immediately? Or do you die and turn into a Shadow once the spell's duration runs out? What if your Str damage is greater than 13 points, but below 17?

BTW: similar questions could be asked concerning temporary HP, although these don't represent a "bonus" in the technical sense of the word.

[Echoes]

Temp HP is always lost first, so the issue never comes up.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Well, haven't you noticed how slow this forum is getting? Do you know of any 3.5 sites that still go strong?

It's not any worse than usual

[veekie]

Well, haven't you noticed how slow this forum is getting? Do you know of any 3.5 sites that still go strong?

It's not any worse than usual

Yarr, you just got the usual academic year/holiday season slowdowns, nothing to note.

[McPoyo]

Well, haven't you noticed how slow this forum is getting? Do you know of any 3.5 sites that still go strong?

It's not any worse than usual

Yarr, you just got the usual academic year/holiday season slowdowns, nothing to note.

Plug: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.msg251923#msg251923

[Tshern]

Some people have a neat 4,5 month summer vacation, so the posting rate goes down, down, down.