Author Topic: Save Penalty Maximization  (Read 1468 times)

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  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
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Save Penalty Maximization
« on: July 24, 2010, 05:24:25 AM »
We're starting an evil game soon, and I've pretty much planned out my own character to be a (gestalt) debuffer/battlefield control wizard. That's all fine and dandy. No, my question relates to my planned cohort.

My cohort's job is going to be to get up in their grill and make the enemy take a million penalties to their saves and anything else they can manage. Having read a number of bits, I know I want the following:

Lawful Evil (Probably Human or Half-Elf)

*Paladin of Tyranny 3 (For Aura of Despair, from UA/d20srd)
*Hexblade 4 or 5 (with Dark Companion ACF, for Hexblade Curse and Dark Companion, from CWar+PHB2)
*Bard 1+ to power Doomspeak (feat from CoRuin, spend bardic music for massive penalties; not to mention Bard ACF of Inspire Awe)
*Either levels of Binder, or Vestige + Improved Vestige for Focular's Aura of Sadness (from ToM)
*Draconic Presence and/or Dreadful Wrath feats (PGtF for save vs Shaken every spellcast)

I'm starting to run into actions/round issues, but am I missing anything to screw up their saves even worse? (Last game, our GM let our cohorts become gestalted when we were high enough level, and they get a feat at L1+even levels already... just assume I will eventually have room to fiddle more things in if they work well, or can swap out better options for lesser ones)

(The nice thing is that the character will have decent armor and good saves, especially vs spells/SLAs, so they can get into melee and not suffer too bad. Not to mention the enemy's penalties to ATTACK means free effective AC for everyone. :D)


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Re: Save Penalty Maximization
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2010, 07:42:38 AM »
So I take it by your build that you read through the Fear Handbook since you seem to have most of the main points covered.

Dreadful Wrath I think would be a better choice that Draconic Presence since then you wouldn't need to take or have access to Draconic Heritage.

Imperious Command feat + Never Outnumbered skill trick might be worth looking into.

Binder +  Focular would be great.

If you can manage to get in sneak attack you could then qualify for Scarlet Corsair to finish off the build.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 08:33:48 PM by gorfnad »


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Re: Save Penalty Maximization
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2010, 11:24:40 AM »
There's always Unseelie Fey with the Winter Chill Season Power. -CHA bonue morale to enemies' saves. Dragon Compendium p. 223


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Re: Save Penalty Maximization
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2010, 12:32:50 PM »
For the action economy issue the trick is to focus on the abilities that will work when you are doing other things. This is where the bard levels  you mentioned become less desirable as using those abilities takes up actions to initiate. Everything else suggested besides imperious command is either constant or triggers when you charge the enemy. If I am remembering right you should get something in the area of -10 to enemy saves.


  • Bi-Curious George
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Re: Save Penalty Maximization
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2010, 02:32:03 PM »
Ask your DM if the blackguard's Aura of Despair will stack with the Paladin of Tyranny's. If so, that gets you up to -8 from Auras alone (Focalor + PoT + BG + Amon(?)).

Also, I would see if your DM will let you use character level rather than class level for the curse DC.
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  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
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Re: Save Penalty Maximization
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2010, 04:09:15 PM »


  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
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Re: Save Penalty Maximization
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2010, 05:05:19 PM »
I'm pretty sure the aura of despair on blackguard/paladin won't stack, being the same thing essentially.

Argh, Unseelie Fey would be perfect but it doesn't have a LA. Even the Errata just gives a CR.

I think I'll focus mainly on the Imperious Command + Never Outnumbered combo that makes a melee attack mess them up. Ultimately, I don't want to fear them around so much as just ruin their save DCs and while cowering is great, panicked is less attractive.

Looks like I'll be taking more levels of Binder than I expected, as the second aura is worth picking up.

Annnd... Scarlet Corsair is interesting for making it last a lot longer, but I'll have to see how I'm doing for room at that point.


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Re: Save Penalty Maximization
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2010, 05:52:30 PM »
Argh, Unseelie Fey would be perfect but it doesn't have a LA. Even the Errata just gives a CR.
LA+0.  The sample monster they gave is an Unseelie Fey Gnome and has LA+0 listed.  Gnome is LA+0, so if an Unseelie Fey Gnome is LA+0, Unseelie Fey is too.
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