Author Topic: Azrael  (Read 30426 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Agita

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5465
  • SFT is mai waifu.
Re: Azrael
« Reply #60 on: July 19, 2010, 09:08:10 PM »
To be honest, the OP was tldr, so I missed that Azrael has Manipulate Form. :P In that case, Azrael vs. Pun-Pun (as well as Azrael vs. anyone else, really) is utterly moot, because Azrael is pretty much Pun-Pun. At that point, it would be easier to just make him a level 1 character and say "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".

One of the kill pun-pun builds might kill him, in that case. The Omniscificer build was, IIRC, specifically created to know about Big P before he ascends and kill him while he's still mortal.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

Agita's Awesome Poster Compilation
Lycanthromancer's Awesome Poster Compilation

Azrael

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
    • Email
Re: Azrael
« Reply #61 on: July 19, 2010, 09:19:37 PM »
Azrael doesn't have manipulate form but he can easily grant it to himself in the same manner that Pun-Pun did (if I'm not mistaken).

Yeah I know, he would basically be Pun-Pun then wouldn't he...the point is to avoid such things from occurring (or having to occur out of necessity). Therefore, I would say the most logical ruling to prevent such things from happening is to declare that manipulate form is incapable of creating abilities that don't exist.

I don't know, that would just be my solution...

Anyway, barring creating abilities that don't exist like Kill Whoever (Ex) I honestly don't believe there is a way to defeat Azrael...barring that one thing that I still need to check up on. Which, actually, would be a way to defeat pun-pun as well...assuming it works...it's very Aladdin. 

One of the kill pun-pun builds might kill him, in that case.

What builds?

The Omniscificer build was, IIRC, specifically created to know about Big P before he ascends and kill him while he's still mortal.

And isn't that still a chicken-or-egg debate that everyone should avoid.

Just FYI, the reason I think we should avoid these types of arguments is because anyone can make them. Any D&D newb with no CO experience whatsoever can make such an argument. Therefore, in light of it not being used against us, I vote that we don't use it ourselves...otherwise, what are we doing here?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 09:23:52 PM by Azrael »

Agita

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 5465
  • SFT is mai waifu.
Re: Azrael
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2010, 07:19:03 AM »
And isn't that still a chicken-or-egg debate that everyone should avoid.
Pretty much. The whole point of the build, IIRC, was to win the chicken-and-egg debate.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

Agita's Awesome Poster Compilation
Lycanthromancer's Awesome Poster Compilation

Azrael

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
    • Email
Re: Azrael
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2010, 03:44:16 PM »
I remember seeing that build way back when. I thought the only special thing was that infinite loop involving the belt and some other shit.

In anycase, how exactly does it prove he came first?

Damien_Wilacoth

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: Azrael
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2010, 10:10:43 AM »
How exactly is Azrael keeping his Fusion going all the time?  You mentioned Metamind abuse, but what exactly are you abusing?

telehax

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 443
Re: Azrael
« Reply #65 on: September 19, 2010, 10:42:00 AM »
Temporal Reiteration

Go look it up.

KellKheraptis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
  • What's the matter? I thought you had me...
    • Email
Re: Azrael
« Reply #66 on: September 19, 2010, 12:16:20 PM »
Azrael, is the build you refer to one of Monty and the Terminator, per chance (i.e. your psicrystal trick)?  Or was there a TO build I missed somewhere (like...Amaranth maybe, though he'd just be another stalemate)?  Also, thinking of building a TO character to see if I can match him >.>  Minus Pun-pun of course, though the Shadow Mythal Mage comes close :P
BG's Resident Black Hatter
The Mango List Reborn!
My Warmage Trickery (coming soon!)
My PrC Pally Trickery (coming soon!)
The D&D Archive
-Work in progress!

Azrael

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
    • Email
Re: Azrael
« Reply #67 on: September 19, 2010, 03:44:44 PM »
I actually don't know what build it was. I don't even think it was a specific char build, it was just an idea someone posted at some point in time that I happened to read and thought was a good idea.

I mean, you can try, but I'm perfectly confident there's no possible way to beat this char. You could theoretically stalemate him perhaps, but even then its probably more like a 'you need to run away and stay under my radar and avoid all possible encounters type of thing' which isn't a true stalemate imo. And again, even if you do manage to kill him (somehow) there's no possible way to enter his mansion (I should actually have two separate mansions, one for the astral seed, and one for the psicrystal), and kill the psicrystal or astral seed before he would revive himself.

*Note to self: add a thought bottle next to his Astral Seed so when he revives himself (assuming it ever occurs) he can get himself up to his normal level instantaneously. 

Which also reminds me, I need to add a spell-aimed ghost trap to him as well...to prevent wink-out stalemating.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 03:46:35 PM by Azrael »

KellKheraptis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
  • What's the matter? I thought you had me...
    • Email
Re: Azrael
« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2010, 08:47:07 PM »
Technically, as I thought about it, any paranoid archmage with demiplane CoM astral projection tactics stalemates anyone super powerful, and vice versa.  Neither will ever go after the other, and neither can enter the fully closed demiplane of the other.
BG's Resident Black Hatter
The Mango List Reborn!
My Warmage Trickery (coming soon!)
My PrC Pally Trickery (coming soon!)
The D&D Archive
-Work in progress!

Azrael

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
    • Email
Re: Azrael
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2010, 11:54:31 PM »
Right, that's kind of what I meant when I said

'you need to run away and stay under my radar and avoid all possible encounters type of thing' which isn't a true stalemate imo

Though I suppose I forgot about AP. I guess as long as there's some kind of encounter then it can be considered a stalemate...I guess.

Bauglir

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2346
  • TriOptimum
Re: Azrael
« Reply #70 on: September 20, 2010, 12:17:45 AM »
Did Tleilaxu_Ghola's no-ship work for the Terminator ever get anywhere? I haven't been able to find that stuff in a format I can understand, so I don't know exactly what it's capable of, but I do seem to recall riding around in a buffed-up Tarrasque-shell with TBoS cheese or something. And something about time travel?
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

KellKheraptis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
  • What's the matter? I thought you had me...
    • Email
Re: Azrael
« Reply #71 on: September 20, 2010, 11:56:27 AM »
Did Tleilaxu_Ghola's no-ship work for the Terminator ever get anywhere? I haven't been able to find that stuff in a format I can understand, so I don't know exactly what it's capable of, but I do seem to recall riding around in a buffed-up Tarrasque-shell with TBoS cheese or something. And something about time travel?

Do you have access to the original thread in archive?
BG's Resident Black Hatter
The Mango List Reborn!
My Warmage Trickery (coming soon!)
My PrC Pally Trickery (coming soon!)
The D&D Archive
-Work in progress!

Bauglir

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2346
  • TriOptimum
Re: Azrael
« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2010, 01:07:53 PM »
Did Tleilaxu_Ghola's no-ship work for the Terminator ever get anywhere? I haven't been able to find that stuff in a format I can understand, so I don't know exactly what it's capable of, but I do seem to recall riding around in a buffed-up Tarrasque-shell with TBoS cheese or something. And something about time travel?

Do you have access to the original thread in archive?

Nope. I think I might've found an archive once, but it would've been back during Gleemax days or earlier. I'm not sure if it still exists, but if it does it'd be a strong contender here, I think. I could look around for it later, but I was mostly wondering if anybody remembered it (and had a better grasp of it than I did, as I think I got lost fairly quickly).
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

KellKheraptis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
  • What's the matter? I thought you had me...
    • Email
Re: Azrael
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2010, 01:24:02 PM »
Did Tleilaxu_Ghola's no-ship work for the Terminator ever get anywhere? I haven't been able to find that stuff in a format I can understand, so I don't know exactly what it's capable of, but I do seem to recall riding around in a buffed-up Tarrasque-shell with TBoS cheese or something. And something about time travel?

Do you have access to the original thread in archive?

Nope. I think I might've found an archive once, but it would've been back during Gleemax days or earlier. I'm not sure if it still exists, but if it does it'd be a strong contender here, I think. I could look around for it later, but I was mostly wondering if anybody remembered it (and had a better grasp of it than I did, as I think I got lost fairly quickly).

If it had to do with sub-atomic particle optimization on a quantum physics/temporal manipulation level, then yeah, I remember it, but don't have the archive.  Basically it used pure math to prove the <xxx here> always will, always did, and always has existed before, during, and after Pun-pun, thus providing a means to concretely remove him.  And ironically I believe Vecna-blooded was part of it.
BG's Resident Black Hatter
The Mango List Reborn!
My Warmage Trickery (coming soon!)
My PrC Pally Trickery (coming soon!)
The D&D Archive
-Work in progress!

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Azrael
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2010, 04:15:43 PM »
Did Tleilaxu_Ghola's no-ship work for the Terminator ever get anywhere? I haven't been able to find that stuff in a format I can understand, so I don't know exactly what it's capable of, but I do seem to recall riding around in a buffed-up Tarrasque-shell with TBoS cheese or something. And something about time travel?
IIRC it involved having an antimagic tarrasque swallow you, and having antimagic tarrasque pseudodragons cling to it. In a dead magic zone.

There was another build which involved a denizen of a timeless plane sending a Thought Bottle back in time to the Material Plane before Pun-Pun existed, erasing his own memories and going back in time to find it (since Pun-Pun would realise if someone time-travelled with the intent to kill him).
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 04:18:06 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Epoch16

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 31
Re: Azrael
« Reply #75 on: September 20, 2010, 06:03:20 PM »
If time is stopped when Azrael casts CoP, from where do the answers come from? (I am assuming the deity that Azrael contacts would be frozen in time, and therefore unable to speak while the timestop was active.)

I guess the answer must be that there are at least some deities that are un affected by Time Stop? I do know there is a chosen of Mystra that is unaffected. . . .


Azrael

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
    • Email
Re: Azrael
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2010, 03:17:05 AM »
I had that question too, but there doesn't seem to be a rule saying CoP wouldn't work...perhaps the time lords from the immortals handbook are answering him...who knows.

I always got the impression it was an over-deity or some other entity that answers CoP since "gods" (as they are in the books) wouldn't necessarily know the answers to everything. To borrow a term from Buffy/Angel 'the powers that be' -most likely the same powers that have a hand in the omniscience of contingency- have a hand in it.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 03:20:36 AM by Azrael »

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Azrael
« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2010, 03:24:47 AM »
I think technically you can bypass vecna blooded via COP, since vecna still knows shit about you.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Mixster

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1642
Re: Azrael
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2010, 11:42:51 AM »
How do you get around not rolling a one on the CoP other int check to not decrease your charisma and int to 8 for 5 weeks?
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

Bozwevial

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4497
  • Developing a relaxed attitude to danger.
Re: Azrael
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2010, 11:46:53 AM »
How do you get around not rolling a one on the CoP other int check to not decrease your charisma and int to 8 for 5 weeks?
Take 10 on it.