Author Topic: Azrael  (Read 39518 times)

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2010, 01:43:47 AM »
Permanently imprison somebody incorporeal?  Good luck.  As for trap the soul, I already have a trap the soul gem prepared with your name inscribed on it.  Trapping me implicitly accepts the gem, thus trapping you inside it inside the other gem.

And a 75% chance of losing your action for the turn and having a 1 for your mental stats and being blind and deaf and losing all you money and your thralls turning against you and losing your spells and casting, with a couple of other nasty things thrown on should put a nasty kink in your plans.

Note that's what happens the first time you kill me.  And I come back 24 hours later, none the worse for the wear.
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Azrael

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2010, 02:27:25 AM »
How would you have my name inscribed on it if you didn't know what it was....remember the prestidigitation. And beyond that I'm vecna blooded now so it doesn't even matter...also, when I COPed you I certainly got the information not to use trap the soul on you since it might be dangerous to me.

Besides, I certainly beg to differ that I accept your gem by trapping you inside mine...even if that was true, I am trapping your soul, not your items or your incorporeal body. Just because you are a ghost does not mean your body = your soul. Even if I somehow do manage to get trapped, I always have my 'save-game' to resort to.

How does this bestow greater curse even effect me, I'm completely immune to magic...not to mention all necromancy, among my many other protections active 24/7. Hell, my spell aimed antimagic field and suppression fields mean that my magic works inside them but yours does not so even if you did do the trap the soul thing your spell would simply fail to affect me.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 02:32:18 AM by Azrael »

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2010, 02:40:56 AM »

Azrael

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2010, 02:49:44 AM »
Even if that is the case its not like it would go through the AMF anyway. The suppressing fields are just an extra precaution to deal with any potential initiates of mystras which can cast through my AMF (assuming they have a high enough CL) but would be unable to make it through the suppression fields since initiate of mystra does not indicate that.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2010, 03:06:14 AM »
If you're immune to magic, you can't use Contact Other Plane.

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(and its material body) into a gem.

Dying Curses are from BoVD.  I lose the ability to come back via raise dead or resurrection, but it never mentions rejuvenation.  

Note that this isn't really a spell - it just inflicts the effects of one.  Or, in the case of having 17+ HD, twenty five bestow curses or 10 bestow greaters.  Which pretty much means that if you kill me you're screwed.

And, well, having lived a full life already and spending a long time being dead, an evil ghost has been scheming since before elans were invented.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 03:12:09 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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Azrael

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2010, 03:28:44 AM »
If you're immune to magic, you can't use Contact Other Plane.


I figured Magic Immunity was the same as Spell Resistance, you can lower it at will...it does say treat it exactly like an unbeatable SR and you can lower your own SR. Either way I can always take it down while im divining inside my temporal accel...after all I have all the time in the world, which takes no time at all.

Trap the soul forces a creature’s life force (and its material body) into a gem.

Even if it does get your body I highly doubt it would accept your Gem since it is now inert...how are your magic items functioning inside a gem? Also, it says body...not body and equipment...so you are nekkid.

Dying Curses are from BoVD.  I lose the ability to come back via raise dead or resurrection, but it never mentions rejuvenation

Note that this isn't really a spell - it just inflicts the effects of one.  Or, in the case of having 17+ HD, twenty five bestow curses or 10 bestow greaters.  Which pretty much means that if you kill me you're screwed.

Regardless whether or not its a spell, it still requires LoE and my veils block that.

And, well, having lived a full life already and spending a long time being dead, an evil ghost has been scheming since before elans were invented.

Chicken and the egg...anyone can make the same argument about pun-pun, do people?...no...


I like how you conveniently avoided these points

1. now vecna blooded so you'll never know my name

2. if they mimic bestow curse (greater) then they are a necromancy effect which I am immune to...regardless if they are a spell or not...hell, they probably even allow a save and SR. If its not specified otherwise you have to assume it works identical to the spell in question.

3. How is your trap the soul or any of your SU effects operating in my AMF?...oh thats right...they don't...you still lose.

4. save-game feature...ill always come back :D and i'll come back before anything ever happened to me in the first place, which means ill take extra measures...lets say 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 castings of COP to ensure my victory...something that you could never accomplish...you see, even if you are "older" than me, because of my infinite time I can cast so many COPs that even if a creature was alive the second the big bang occurred and worked every second of his entire life he still couldn't cast as many as I.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 03:35:48 AM by Azrael »

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2010, 03:32:22 AM »
Chicken and the egg...anyone can make the same argument about pun-pun, do people?...no...
We've settled that little debate.

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Azrael

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2010, 03:38:10 AM »
Obviously not the point.

and actually I disagree with their assessment...Perhaps the gene which is essential to the production of the egg was present in the pre-chicken animal which is only a few genes separated from the modern chicken as we know it. However, evolution always occurs at the genetic level through mutations which, of course, would occur in the egg and thus mutate the embryo into the chicken as we know it today...thus, the egg did indeed come first...the egg which produced the first modern chicken, genetically identical to the chickens we know today.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 03:44:34 AM by Azrael »

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2010, 04:17:34 AM »
It's not "an effect which inflicts bestow greater curse upon the target"
It's "an effect which has the same effect as bestow greater curse upon the target"

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The dying creature can target anyone with a dying curse; the target need not be present when the curse is delivered.

And your save game fails when

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or
Quote
or
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The target cannot cast spells, use spell-like abilities, or activate spell completion or spell trigger items.
happen.

Your nice retrieval gear?  Doesn't work.

The same logic that makes trap the soul trap you naked also means your items aren't temporally accelerating or anklet of transporting with you.  It's also blatantly contrary to how equipment is treated by every spell in the game.  


Dying curses are nasty nasty plot-device-level stuff.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 04:23:35 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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Azrael

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2010, 02:55:21 PM »
Umm same effect still means save and sr...you can choose to interpret it another way but as I have pointed out many times before on RAW arguments, if there is something which can be reasonably interpreted 2 different ways it ceases to be raw and thus be be becomes a theoretical argument which means it ceases to become raw and is now TO...so congrats, I guess you beat my RAW character (actually you stalemated him since he would just avoid you because his cop's indicated a danger so he never fought you in the first place) with a TO...good job what an accomplishment.

edit: and OMFG I just looked at Dying curses and it says (and I quote) "as bestow curse/greater"...when you say "as" something it means "Exactly"....omg are you seriously going to make the argument it doesn't allow save and sr even though it says "as"? You will totally lose that argument...its not even a TO issue anymore, its a common sense issue.


Oh...and these, so maybe you can't even beat RAW with TO :D

Again...vecna blooded so you don't know my name so you cant prepare your trap the soul.

AMF so none of your shit works...even your dying curse

Indigo and violet veils so you can't target me with anything. Sure sounds like those dying curses need a target to me

and oh yeah, almost forgot...since I only face you with infinite actions (as I have indicated in my character description) then I can simply use a wish before your dying curses would affect me to wish to be completely immune to all dying curses...ever...not that I couldn't have just wished for that before I even fought your because my COP would have indicated that.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 03:21:48 PM by Azrael »

Lo77o

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2010, 03:09:59 PM »
I guess anyone with access to CoP and Path of the Exalted could kill you... All they had to do was spend allot of time asking about what buffs you have, and then talk it over with a god. I bet they could find a way to kill you, even if i cant.

But if "all" it takes to find your weak spot is to talk it over with a god, i would suggest your rather safe.
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Azrael

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2010, 03:15:38 PM »
No, my buffs create an absolute defense, its completely impenetrable...believe me, I checked...there is no way around it. And as I have indicated before...

I'm vecna blooded now.

Predtigitation contingency.


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Re: Azrael
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2010, 03:20:53 PM »
Are you telling me that your protected from the prying eyes of gods?
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Azrael

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2010, 03:24:56 PM »
Even if they can see me it doesn't mean they can do anything about me.

I know everything about this character and I can't figure out a way to beat him (save for one...I think; I have to check on something first) so even if I was the DM and the god was under my control I still wouldn't know what to tell the players...well I mean, except for that one thing, but that's how they are supposed to beat him anyway...assuming it does work...which I have to double check on.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2010, 03:26:14 PM »
Quote
If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when called on. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to.
So what's the wording of your claimed prestidigitation contingency?

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activates as soon as an enemy with a CL 17 or higher begins casting a spell; casts Time Stop on Azrael
Never says that it has to be your enemy.  Bam, you just wasted your contingency.  

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You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)

You just wished yourself to death by trying to be immune to dying curses.  Nice job.  They appear to be (ex) anyway, so SR doesn't apply, and I can make a fairly decent argument for them not having saves.


I don't need to know your name.  I just need to carve really small and include all possible letter combinations between 4 and 10 characters in every language.  Pretty sure your name has to be there somewhere.


Honestly, though, saying that you automatically win if you get the initiative and several billion round of actions is really dumb.  You'd have to work hard to find a build that couldn't win under those circumstances.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 03:29:16 PM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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Azrael

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2010, 03:38:23 PM »
So what's the wording of your claimed prestidigitation contingency?

read it...you read the other one.

Never says that it has to be your enemy.  Bam, you just wasted your contingency. 

Oh stop being nit picky...how is it defined as an enemy if its not my enemy? Enemy is a subjective term, which means in order for it to be defined as enemy, it has to be an enemy of me. But damn, if you want to be that technical about it ill change it...sheesh.

You just wished yourself to death by trying to be immune to dying curses.  Nice job.  They appear to be (ex) anyway, so SR doesn't apply, and I can make a fairly decent argument for them not having saves.

well its not like I even have to do that anymore since your dying curses don't even work on me (see above argument)...and even if I did wish myself to death then my save-game would work in this instance because you wouldn't have been able to dying curse me...and its not like I would have even fought your character in the first place if there wasn't 100% chance certainty that I would win and remain unharmed (as per his COP castings)...at this point we are just arguing whether or not your character can affect me in any way, not whether or not he can beat me, that's been thrown out the window already. If it can, I'll simply avoid the battle/killing him; and I would have known all of that ahead of time.

I don't need to know your name.  I just need to carve really small and include all possible letter combinations between 4 and 10 characters in every language.  Pretty sure your name has to be there somewhere.

Really....how are you going to afford all those crystals? That's pretty expensive for only having 760,000 gold.

Honestly, though, saying that you automatically win if you get the initiative and several billion round of actions is really dumb.  You'd have to work hard to find a build that couldn't win under those circumstances.

Its not that I win because I get infinite actions, I win because of the character...the infinite actions just help...hell, its not like someone with infinite actions could get through my impenetrable defense.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 03:47:51 PM by Azrael »

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2010, 03:44:59 PM »
On the same crystal.

Really small.


The thing about contingency is it includes a clause that lets the GM screw with you if you try to abuse the wording.

You tried to abuse the wording - ergo the GM will try to screw with you.
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Re: Azrael
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2010, 03:45:12 PM »


Honestly, though, saying that you automatically win if you get the initiative and several billion round of actions is really dumb.  You'd have to work hard to find a build that couldn't win under those circumstances.

Its not that I win because I get infinite actions, I win because of the character...the infinite actions just help...hell, its not like even someone with infinite actions could get through my impenetrable defense.


Solo's Truenamers could do it  :p

Azrael

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2010, 03:49:42 PM »
On the same crystal.

Really small.


The thing about contingency is it includes a clause that lets the GM screw with you if you try to abuse the wording.

You tried to abuse the wording - ergo the GM will try to screw with you.

Do you want to figure out the Npr for those letter combinations...because im quite sure that even if you were to inscribe them on the atomic level they wouldn't fit on several thousand crystals...let alone you having the ability to write them that tiny.

I guess ill make the wording better then...hell, even Kahn needed some help with pun-pun.

Solo's Truenamers could do it  :p

I highly doubt that...how do they even get LoE to me? Or cast spells on me while I'm inside an AMF?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 03:52:19 PM by Azrael »

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Azrael
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2010, 03:52:01 PM »
The several thousand year head start is implausible.  Especially as an elan, since they're pretty much the newest race on the block.

You also aren't going to get your universe as large as you say it is in that time, anyway.
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