Ok, now to try and answer all of these, err most of them anyway…
1. They get there via Wish, which I assumed you'd pick up from my later mention of it. So saying they can't get there doesn't really work.
3. Could you explain your contingency? The only rules that exist are for things that happen to you, so you couldn't word it on something like a creature appearing near you unless you want to leave the realm of strict RAW and argue that the word "usually" in craft contingent spell lets you do other things. Alternatively, if you're using the spell "contingency", then that's fine, although you can only have one and I'm not sure what it would be (remember, 6th level spell at most; what is this contingency going to do, exactly?), and I'm going to grant that "Uses Wish to transport to somewhere within 200 feet of me" probably isn't too convoluted. Alternatively, if you just meant the general sense of "contingency", could you describe in more detail what you mean?
Do I have to explain my contingency, it should be something like “if anyone uses the spell wish or miracle (or an ability which emulates such a spell) to transport themselves anywhere within 2 miles of me cast timestop”…I don’t see how that wouldn’t work…as you said yourself.
Also, I can, and do use my normal contingency to cast 9th level spells because its 1/3 of your caster level…my caster level is over 2000, which means I can easily get a 9th level spell.
4. Could you explain to me why Kingdoms of Kalamar (EDIT: And yes, I'm looking at the Player's Guide) is legit? It's a 3.0 3rd party sourcebook that, as far as I can tell from the information on its Table of Contents page, was only published under the OGL license (like all 3rd party sourcebooks). I might be missing something, though.
Actually the Kingdoms of Kalimar has a 3.5 update booklet (which changes very little and certainly doesn’t change irresistible spell) thus making it 3.5 legal…and since when don’t people use 3.0 stuff that hasn’t been updated on this board? I seem to recall a whole shit load of Oriental Adventures stuff being used.
Are you trying to make me look like the bad guy by citing things that don't exist?...please, by all means, do quote the section where I directly insulted you.
(please do pay attention)...what a stupid argument... shows how much you know...
And that's only the explicit stuff (mind, I don't buy that "I didn't directly insult you" bullshit that everyone under the age of 10 uses, and if the fact that I'm pointing out your complete inability to construct a rational argument seems like a personal attack, well, I'm not DIRECTLY insulting you, right?). I'm not arguing that your character isn't powerful; he is. I'm arguing that he CAN be defeated by legal builds, and you're just moving the goalposts in an attempt to hide your original overblown statements. I like the stealth edits to your post, by the way. And congratulations on the "I'm leaving, this argument isn't worth my time" approach.
You can choose to take it as an insult but I was just attempting to make a matter-of-fact statement…now an insult would be if I called you a douchebag or something.
Uhm, no, you're wrong, actually. Theoretical refers to optimization that would never see use in an actual game; just as you never see a character actually playing Pun-Pun, you'll never see somebody playing Azrael. Shows how much you know.
The word hypocrite comes to mind…
Speaking of which, and I would like to go on the record as having said this on multiple occasions…I like it how when I bring in a certain build all people ever seem to do is try and tear it down (save for Kell) yet when people like Kahn made Pun-Pun all people tried to do was help him make it more powerful…and trust me, Pun-Pun
DOESN’T all come from Kahn himself. Several people assisted him in finalizing the build…so far I can take full credit for Azrael and all the ingenuity that went into creating him…but I’m only one man…I’m sure if I haven’t thought of a way (and I’m pretty sure that last wish contingency finalizes it) to beat H.I.V.E. someone can think up a way for Azrael to do it.
Ok, a few things.
1) You still have not answered how you are getting that many creatures crammed into 30ft around you. I can concede that you can get a pretty large number, but I don't think as large as you are claiming.
I’m pretty sure everyone else is aware of this already but ill answer it anyway…Consumptive field has a duration…he can just walk around a forest and every little forest animal with less than 9 hp (which is a lot) will just drop dead. It doesn’t have to occur all at once.
2) This can only raise your CL by up to 1/2 your original CL. That means that at best you get CL 30.
Your original CL would be your starting CL when you cast the spell, you cast one spell, you get 30, you cast the second and your original CL is now 30 so you get 45…etc. This isn’t even my idea, I read this a long time ago on the boards…might have been Twice Betrayer or something.
3) You also do not get a feat slot if they have a duplicate feat to the person they are being fused to. It says that if both have a feat, then you only get the feat once.
Well, one could argue that stacking feats, such as extra turning, you would gain multiple times, since any character can have as many of them as he wants…but he can just switch around his feats with psy ref so that none of them match any of the feats of the person hes about to absorb, he absorbs them, then afterwards changes his feats to whatever he wants with psy ref.
4) Use of several different campaign settings certainly seems to border on TO to me, especially when one of them is 3.0 and 3rd party.
As if we haven’t seen feats from different campaign settings mixed before…and Kingdoms of Kalimar is not 3rd party…notice the official D&D seal on the top of the book…that means its official baby…now a book like swords and sorcery, or hyperconscious is 3rd party because It lacks that seal…but people seem to use them anyway (at least hyperconscious).
5) Also, from the MIC:
Some body slots are described as a matched pair of body parts
(such as arms, feet, or hands). If an item uses one of these body
slots, it takes up both “halves” of the body slot even if worn on
only one of the pair. For example, a glove of storing takes up the
entire hands body slot, even though it’s only one glove. Similarly,
items that come in pairs must be worn together in order to function—
wearing a single gauntlet of ogre power has no effect.
Ok, I guess I’ll have to get rid of one of his casting gloves…no big deal.
Bear in mind any sort of CoP contest is an auto-stalemate, as it is time-dependent. Whether the HIVE can do so more efficiently is a moot point when both HIVE and Az have infinite time available to them. Also, whether the wish transit is a teleportation or not, it physically dumps them well within range of Az's anticipate teleport, which IIRC spells out all forms of "poof, I'm here" and delays it. And even if it doesn't, contingent irresistable telekinesis ensures they're shoved out of range of true sight, assuming he doesn't simply set the contingency to something more unpleasant to small component synergetic creatures. Like CL N irresistable circle of death/reserves of strength NI damage blast.
Your stalemate with the HIVE, at least initially, comes from having N actions at N+1 initiative count, effectively the same as an Ardent 10 with Dominant Ideal and mantle shuffle. Again, while he doesn't auto-win (same reason for stalemate as a Wizard, as a fully closed demiplane is just that, untouchable), he won't auto-lose either. And unless HIVE has a respawn plan, eventually Az would get around to picking it apart at its components.
And no, touchsight looks right past Darkstalker. In fact, touchsight has nothing at all to do with sight, and is in fact telekinetic touch at a distance. He's literally fingering the surrounding space, and the surrounding space in all coterminous planes, with his mind. There have been threads about this, and thus far to my knowledge, nothing can bypass transdimensional touchsight. It is the bane of sneaky types, and they just have to deal with it (or use White Raven maneuvers and pray their target isn't immune, which Az is).
Thank you Kell, at least one person is helping me out…good idea on the telekinesis btw
Also, I think you guys forgot to mention…and this one is important so im gonna bold it.
Unless all members of hive can share a single spell with all members of H.I.V.E. then only ONE member can approach me using timestop…and I highly doubt one member can defeat me lol.Therefore, with my new contingencies no one, let alone H.I.V.E. can approach Azrael without him knowing about it…game,set, match…guess it’s another stalemate…
I will concede that it is very possible to build a demiplane which cannot be effectively attacked or invaded, however anyone with Genesis can do that. It would come down to a battle of Astrally projected characters, attacking each other within altered time-streams, one kills the other with a superior number of actions, then they immediately return to life on their own demiplane. By this logic, just about ANY Caster level 18+ (to include sorcerers) is unkillable, or close to it.
Exactly, which basically proves I win…as long as I can make a demiplane no one else can access I will always auto-revive, find out what will kill me, and gain infinite actions and go defeat them. Unless H.I.V.E. does have an auto-revive contingency like mine…I win.
I am not trying to argue that Azrael is weak, he isn't. He simply isn't the unbeatable, kill all, haha I win, God that the OP clearly imagines him to be. That said. Kell, you make a much more convincing and well reasoned argument than he. Thank you.
You mean like the argument that turned you into an ice penguin…or basically disproved everything else you said up until now (see time stop argument; though I could be wrong if H.I.V.E. can indeed share a single spell with all members).
And the HIVE's respawn plan only needs to consist of seeding billions of portions of itself across the multiverse and having them create their own HIVEs. Or mind-raping a psion long enough to Fuse with it and then mind-seed some suckers
And why can’t Azrael find out about these and kill them off?
Let's do one better. This requires no contingency, by the way...Metamagic Effect a Maw of Chaos at NI CL. Now start Widening to taste. So much for getting close to him...
Sorry, missed this one when I posted Azrael never said his iconic was undefeatable, but he effectively is. Any number of builds can stalemate him, that's easy. But nothing per se can ultimately kill him, and in 3.5 achieving that status is frighteningly easy. Also, the way he goes about it leaves a LOT of room for offensive power, giving him a leg up on the competition. He is similar to the HIVE in a lot of ways, drawing from within instead of without, and using open-ended spells and powers to match their more ridiculous abilities. And remember, each member of his fusion can also have a contingency active upon their person, and a number of contingent crafts up to the limit of that feat. Combine with the usual "I fuck with time" routine, and it's effectively no more effective than having only the usual limit, which is most likely why he didn't bother to mention it. Between his immunity to surprise and ability to always act under any circumstance, the best you can hope to do bringing infinite actions to bear on him is match his infinite actions.
So, wait…where do I put it….is it just….everywhere? Also, people with favor of the martyr (which I’m sure H.I.V.E. has) would be immune to the daze.
Again, thanks for explaining the ways he is actually better than a normal 20th level wiz…didn’t think about the everyone having a contingency…though they would all have to be able to cast it themselves…and most cannot…However, I can have 2053 contingencies on myself if I thought I needed them…I didn’t think I would.
Just pointing out that he DID say Azrael is undefeatable. Honestly, the only reason I'm in this thread is hubris; Azrael is an absurdly powerful character, but he doesn't do anything original. He just combines all the other tricks that high level Wizards do with a trick that a high level Psion does, and then throws in some 3rd party stuff (Irresistable Spell, unless someone can tell me why the book is a legitimate source) and misread Fusion to give multiples of feats (Azrael doesn't have as many spell slots as he thinks he does, among other things). Also, since a fused being is only one being, it cannot have multiple contingencies (or other effects that a creature can only have one of).
Again,
NOT 3rd PARTY, HAS OFFICIAL SEAL, didn’t misread fusion (see above), and CAN have multiple contingencies since craft contingent spell is based off CL and he has unlimited money from supernatural wish…and you’re saying the stuff I say is unfounded…you didn’t even read Craft Contingent Spell.
I'd not be posting in this thread nearly as much if Azrael (the poster) had shown any degree of modesty at all, shown some original thought in creating the build, not talked his build in the manner of a stereotypical (that's an important word, by the way) nerd arguing that Sephiroth could totally beat Goku in a fight, or had any sort of reputation as somebody who builds silly-powerful, complicated characters abusing poorly thought out rules (like your uses of Circle Magic, Kell). As it is, the OP sounded like somebody saying, "I'm the bestest optimizer EVAR". And while he's certainly good (and seriously, kudos on just doing the grunt work necessary to put Azrael (here the character) together, that's a lot of books to check), it seems like he cares too much about his e-peen, which is unfortunate because, no matter how big it is, it never built a Star Destroyer (I may be using Tsuyo as a reference too much, but he's become synonymous with absurdly amazing charop stuff in my mind).
Oh, I was modest…that is before Fallen Angle thought he could defeat me with a pathetic artificer and have the
Hubris do then insinuate his artificer could then defeat Pun-Pun…that’s when I started…if you’ll notice, all the posts before then were quite humble.
P.S. Never played ff7, and I hate DBZ…yeah…I’m the stereotype…I much prefer a good anime…like Death Note…you know, something with a plot…ill bold this one for emphasis
For someone that claimed I was making childish insults (which I wasn’t, imo) you sure are one large hypocrite…and I would much rather be a stereotypical nerd than a hypocrite If I really did care about my ‘e peen’ as much as you claim I do, do you think I would stick around this board all day and post post post… No, it’s called…oh what is it…oh yeah A LIFE…I have one you know… P.P.S. Also, I like how the only chars you can come up with that can 'supposedly' defeat Azrael are among the most popular CO chars of all time...so what does that make Azrael...3rd...4th...? And you say he doesn't belong...pfffft.
And a special thanks to Kell for all his support.
Btw, this will be the last post I make for the day, I have better things to do with my time, like go to the Sephiroth vs Goku convention downtown with all my nerdy friends, I hear its going to be quite a debate