Author Topic: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?  (Read 8202 times)

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2010, 03:26:15 PM »
Or combine the two and take Undead Leadership.
How about C) All of the Above?

Leadership + Undead Leadership + Animate Dead + Rebuke/Command + Command Undead = "Me and what army? Why the one right behind me!"
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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2010, 03:59:26 PM »
Or combine the two and take Undead Leadership.
How about C) All of the Above?

Leadership + Undead Leadership + Animate Dead + Rebuke/Command + Command Undead = "Me and what army? Why the one right behind me!"
Forgot Draconic Leadership or whatever gave you a dragon cohort.
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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2010, 04:00:36 PM »
Or combine the two and take Undead Leadership.
How about C) All of the Above?

Leadership + Undead Leadership + Animate Dead + Rebuke/Command + Command Undead = "Me and what army? Why the one right behind me!"
Forgot Draconic Leadership or whatever gave you a dragon cohort.
Also Wild Cohort.
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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2010, 04:27:13 PM »
Burrow speeds or incorporeality as they make many obstacles...not.
Adamantine weapons, too, although that's more of a fault of 3E's hardness system, and not adamantine in and of itself.  Even non-adamantine weapons can cut through stone with Power Attack.
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Littha

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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2010, 06:48:13 PM »
Or combine the two and take Undead Leadership.
How about C) All of the Above?

Leadership + Undead Leadership + Animate Dead + Rebuke/Command + Command Undead = "Me and what army? Why the one right behind me!"
Forgot Draconic Leadership or whatever gave you a dragon cohort.
Also Wild Cohort.

I want to make this character so bad now...

Gunhaven

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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2010, 08:18:58 PM »
Or combine the two and take Undead Leadership.
How about C) All of the Above?

Leadership + Undead Leadership + Animate Dead + Rebuke/Command + Command Undead = "Me and what army? Why the one right behind me!"
Forgot Draconic Leadership or whatever gave you a dragon cohort.
Also Wild Cohort.

I want to make this character so bad now...
Dread Necromancer if you want to specialize in Undead armies, with Leadership, Undead Leadership, Draconic Cohort, and Wild Cohort (if I could find the book to make sure it works).  Throw in Extra Followers.  If you could get it house ruled that you can take Prestige Classes and keep boosting Undead Mastery then maybe something like Malconvoker.  OR be an (Half-)Orc and take Orc Warlord 3 + Extra Followers

So (Half-)Orc Dread Necromancer 17/Orc Warlord 3 with Leadership, Undead Leadership, Draconic Cohort, Wild Cohort, and Extra Followers.  Then have your Cohorts take the same feats, -Wild Cohort for the Undead and -Undead for the Living.  Make them DN and the living DN/OW.  Just to make it easy, assume they have a +10 Cha Mod.
DN: 17*14 + 17*14 + 14*14 = 672 HD
Follower Multipliers: *2 for two leaderships, *2 for OW, *2 for Extra Followers.  Then *2 for two leaderships, *2 for Extra Followers and *2 for OW and *2 for Extra Followers.  I'll also assume Max Leadership for the Cohorts (since they can mooch off your maxing the score and +10 Cha Mod = >25)  So we have *6 at max on the table.
Base Followers: 135, 13, 7, 4, 2, 2.  Multiplied = 810, 78, 24, 12, and 12.
Add it all up: 1608.
In addition, you have 12 guys who can take Leadership, with 5 (2 from main, 2 from living, 1 from undead) taking Orc Warlord 1 for *1.5.  Say their Cha Mod is 5, so their leadership score is 11.  That's 6 followers, 9 from the OW.  45+42 more.

Overall you should have 1695 followers.  (But I probably butchered the math somewhere and/or it's unoptimized)
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Littha

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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2010, 08:36:04 PM »
Alternatively Kalashar Dread necro 19/Thrallheard 1 rather than orc warlord. You can kill off your thralls for undeadening.

Gunhaven

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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2010, 08:54:15 PM »
Alternatively Kalashar Dread necro 19/Thrallheard 1 rather than orc warlord. You can kill off your thralls for undeadening.

Ultimately less satisfying, in the Thrallherd ability: A thrallherd cannot take the Leadership feat; if the character already has it, the feat is lost and replaced by this ability.  I did forget Cohort's Cohort's Cohort's etc.  In addition there's the items that increase leadership score that you could give to your followers.  So if you wanted max followers from your cohorts you'd need (8 + (2 * tier - 1) or 8 for 1st, 10 for 2nd, 12 for 3rd, etc.  I just noticed a table function on this so I'll edit this with said table.

Edit:  Table of Leadership.  Assuming Dread necromancers for Cohorts, with 3 Orc Warlord for everyone (assuming I can take it as undead and we'll just have a whole bunch of [undead] orcs running around) and 18 Charisma with a +6 Cha Mod item, Venerable Age, and every advancement point being +1 Cha.  Also assumed is max leadership mods from the feat (Items will of course change this)
CharacterUndeadFollowers: 123456Special#
Main2558107842241212None1
Tier 1 (17)2388107842241212No Wild2
Tier 2 (15)2108107842241212No Wild4
Tier 3 (13)1828107842241212NA Wild/Dragon8
Tier 4 (11)1437574211DN 11, No Extra16
Tier 5 (9)1175053210DN 9, No Extra32
Tier 6 (7):(3531100Orc 1, 1 Leader64
Tier 7 (6):(3031100Orc 1, 1 Leader196
Now we add them up.  Followers strike me as the easiest so we'll do them first.
Category123456
Main - T3121501170630360180180
T4120011264321616
T516001609664320
T62048192646400
T7588058819619600
Total2287822221050652228196
Now then, Clerics at level 5 gets Animate Dead, as well as Death getting it at the same level.  So each Level 5 Cleric can control 6*4 or 24 HD undead. (More if you feat it, just being simple with it right now)
Tier# at Tier# of UndeadTotal
Main1255255
12238476
24210840
381821456
4161432145
5321173744
8228245472
Total14388

So then, 14388HD worth of undead, 22878 Level 1 followers, 2222 Level 2 followers, 1050 Level 3 followers, 652 Level 4 followers, 228 Level 5 followers, and 196 Level 6 followers.  In addition you'd have 7 Dragons and 1 Wild Cohort who I don't think can take class levels.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 09:53:16 PM by Gunhaven »
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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2010, 10:21:42 PM »
Add in impure prince to give every member of your army zombie symbiotes?
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Littha

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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2010, 10:37:48 PM »
This needs some circle magic...

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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2010, 10:48:17 PM »
How old do threads have to be before I can create a new one?  I was thinking of making a Leadership/Army Handbook.
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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2010, 05:08:09 AM »
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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2010, 01:37:22 PM »
So then, 14388HD worth of undead, 22878 Level 1 followers, 2222 Level 2 followers, 1050 Level 3 followers, 652 Level 4 followers, 228 Level 5 followers, and 196 Level 6 followers.  In addition you'd have 7 Dragons and 1 Wild Cohort who I don't think can take class levels.
Everyone needs to be halfings with Swarmfighting (use awaken undead) just to spit in the face of physics.  :)

Also you should hire a Warblade to use War Master's Charge. +990,600 damage & stunning off the strike alone and everyone hits, probably a record or something if you got into it. Like everything having even a mere +1d6 SA would mean +39,622d6 damage. Having 5 dragonfire bards in the team produces a holy crap number.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 01:40:20 PM by SorO_Lost »
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Gunhaven

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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2010, 04:55:03 PM »
So then, 14388HD worth of undead, 22878 Level 1 followers, 2222 Level 2 followers, 1050 Level 3 followers, 652 Level 4 followers, 228 Level 5 followers, and 196 Level 6 followers.  In addition you'd have 7 Dragons and 1 Wild Cohort who I don't think can take class levels.
Everyone needs to be halfings with Swarmfighting (use awaken undead) just to spit in the face of physics.  :)

Also you should hire a Warblade to use War Master's Charge. +990,600 damage & stunning off the strike alone and everyone hits, probably a record or something if you got into it. Like everything having even a mere +1d6 SA would mean +39,622d6 damage. Having 5 dragonfire bards in the team produces a holy crap number.
The only ones that would be slated for anything is the level 5s (Clerics) and level 6s (Orc Warlords).  I also saw a post about the Leadership Loop where if you take Might Makes Right and stacked Cha and Str then you could pull off infinite followers.
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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2010, 04:57:07 PM »
Cancer Mage and Might Makes Right...

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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2010, 12:28:24 AM »
Cancer Mage and Might Makes Right...

I was wondering how long it would take before someone pointed out the obvious :D
That really is a silly and ill-thought broken PrC.
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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2010, 12:54:31 AM »
Cancer Mage and Might Makes Right...

I was wondering how long it would take before someone pointed out the obvious :D
That really is a silly and ill-thought broken PrC.
I think it's the disease that's the problem, not the PrC.  Any cleric, druid, hell even a dragon shaman with the higher-level version of Touch of Vitality can reliably cure 1d3 Con damage per day and happily suffer Hulk's Disease forever.  It's not like the Will save is that hard, or that you can't be angry at something that you can't destroy no matter how strong you get (bad things happening to good people, maybe).
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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2010, 12:59:10 AM »
HULK ANGRY AT BINARY GENDER SYSTEM! HULK SMASH!

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Re: What spells and abilities radically change how the game is played?
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2010, 01:01:25 AM »
HULK ANGRY AT BINARY GENDER SYSTEM! HULK SMASH!
God help any nearby warforged that innocently inquires about the difference between boys and girls.
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