Author Topic: Advice needed for building a Lelouch  (Read 6926 times)

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Sachiru

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Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« on: July 11, 2010, 09:50:20 AM »
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CodeGeass

So basically I'm building a Lelouch, a Magnificent Bastard whose power is the ability to issue commands that cannot be ignored.

How can I build a character that focuses so hard on Mind Control, with damage-dealing as a backup.

Rules:

32 Point Buy
Level 20 Campaign
All WotC sources allowed
760,000 gp starting money
Powergamer-friendly
Arena game

Previously, the DM sent us to fight two Balors and a Tarrasque. It would be wise to assume that we will be pitted against them again, since we had TPK'ed our last session. I'd appreciate it if I could mind control at least one of them reliably.

Agita

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2010, 10:16:43 AM »
First of all, ask your DM how he interprets the line that Dragonfire Adepts use their invocations as a Standard action.
Quote
A dragonfire adept's invocations are spell-like abilities: using an invocation is therefore a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
If he rules that this bypasses the casting time of spells that a DFA invocation mimics, your job is easy: Be a DFA and grab the Baleful Geas invocation. It does pretty much what the name implies. Season to taste.

For less ambiguity, be a Wizard and take the Uncanny Foresight feat, which lets you cast any spell you have picked with Spell Mastery spontaneously (not exactly, but that's the gist), specifically as a standard action. Cast Geas. Done.

Otherwise, Beguiler is a good choice. Grab Programmed Amnesia or Mind Rape for your last Advanced Learning spell.
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Sachiru

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2010, 10:35:14 AM »
First of all, ask your DM how he interprets the line that Dragonfire Adepts use their invocations as a Standard action.
Quote
A dragonfire adept's invocations are spell-like abilities: using an invocation is therefore a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
If he rules that this bypasses the casting time of spells that a DFA invocation mimics, your job is easy: Be a DFA and grab the Baleful Geas invocation. It does pretty much what the name implies. Season to taste.

For less ambiguity, be a Wizard and take the Uncanny Foresight feat, which lets you cast any spell you have picked with Spell Mastery spontaneously (not exactly, but that's the gist), specifically as a standard action. Cast Geas. Done.

Otherwise, Beguiler is a good choice. Grab Programmed Amnesia or Mind Rape for your last Advanced Learning spell.

Cool. Any other options, or any ideas on how to flesh this out?

Prime32

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2010, 10:35:40 AM »
Depends on how you interpret the geas spell. In mythology a geas didn't control you, it just weakened you if you didn't obey it. The spell can easily be read that way.

Take the body of war spell to summon a Knightmare.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Sachiru

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2010, 11:03:58 AM »
DM houseruled that the invoke's casting time is the same as the one mimicked. :fo  :mad

I'm going with the Beguiler idea, then prestige-classing into Mindbender, Shadowcraft Mage and a dip into Divine Oracle for survivability. Is that okay, or are there better builds?

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2010, 03:40:28 PM »
Uncanny Forethought Feat (exemplars of evil)
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Agita

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2010, 04:00:37 PM »
Uncanny Forethought Feat (exemplars of evil)
Beat you to it. :P

For less ambiguity, be a Wizard and take the Uncanny Foresight feat, which lets you cast any spell you have picked with Spell Mastery spontaneously (not exactly, but that's the gist), specifically as a standard action. Cast Geas. Done.

Though I'm pretty sure we could do something with a Ghost. Don't they get a possession-like ability? :D
And there's got to be some way to fit Lucid Dreaming in.
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skydragonknight

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2010, 04:24:01 PM »
Thrallherd?
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2010, 05:02:03 PM »
Uncanny Forethought Feat (exemplars of evil)
Beat you to it. :P
Yes, but I got the name correct.  And it's a full-round, not a standard action.
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Agita

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2010, 05:03:43 PM »
Uncanny Forethought Feat (exemplars of evil)
Beat you to it. :P
Yes, but I got the name correct.  And it's a full-round, not a standard action.
A standard action if you use the left-empty spell slots, though.
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AngellusMortus

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2010, 05:12:00 PM »
I second skydragonknight on Thrallherd...those things can be hilarious. You and what army? Oh, the absolutely massive one of slaves attracted solely by your incredible psionic prowess. :smirk

However, if you want to be positive you can reliably enchant just about anything, check out the possible adaptation of the Nightmare Spinner from the Complete Mage page 77:

"The nightmare spinner class is designed as an illusion specialist, but it could work just as well with an enchantment specialty, since most spells from that school are also mindaffecting. Such a character probably would not have an evil bent, and the class abilities could be modified to allow him to charm or dominate creatures that are usually immune to such spells."

If your DM allows this, become a Master Specialist enchanter and do anything necessary to get this class and get that ability. It essentially completely removes the biggest weakness of enchanters; things that are immune to mind-affecting effects.

Prime32

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2010, 11:51:36 PM »
Feats to look at:
Alluring (3.0)
Forked Tongue
Unsettling Enchantment
Touch of Distraction
IIRC, Lords of Madness had some feats for improving mind control.
"The nightmare spinner class is designed as an illusion specialist, but it could work just as well with an enchantment specialty, since most spells from that school are also mindaffecting. Such a character probably would not have an evil bent, and the class abilities could be modified to allow him to charm or dominate creatures that are usually immune to such spells."

If your DM allows this, become a Master Specialist enchanter and do anything necessary to get this class and get that ability. It essentially completely removes the biggest weakness of enchanters; things that are immune to mind-affecting effects.
"I enter the temple of Pelor, remove my eyepatch and look up."
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 12:13:17 AM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

SorO_Lost

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2010, 11:11:01 AM »
Hmm, DC boosting.
Feats: Snowcasting(fb), Draconic Aura(dm), Cold Focus(fb), Greater Cold Focus(fb), Vow Of Nonviolence(boed), Spell Focus(enchantment), Greater Spell Focus(enchantment).
Items: Icemail Armor(online), Veil Of Allure(ss).
+14 to enchantment save DCs.

With the Beguiler's Cloaked Casting & 36 int you have DC 38+spell_level.

Oh, and with Flaws you can nab a second Spell Focus feat and pick up a level in Archmage, just so you can pick up Ability Focus with your spell-like ability Dominate Monster (dc 49).  :)
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Sachiru

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2010, 01:10:34 PM »
Cool ideas from all, thanks!

BTW, what's a thrallherd and where can I find it in the sourcebooks?
I second skydragonknight on Thrallherd...those things can be hilarious. You and what army? Oh, the absolutely massive one of slaves attracted solely by your incredible psionic prowess. :smirk

However, if you want to be positive you can reliably enchant just about anything, check out the possible adaptation of the Nightmare Spinner from the Complete Mage page 77:

"The nightmare spinner class is designed as an illusion specialist, but it could work just as well with an enchantment specialty, since most spells from that school are also mindaffecting. Such a character probably would not have an evil bent, and the class abilities could be modified to allow him to charm or dominate creatures that are usually immune to such spells."

If your DM allows this, become a Master Specialist enchanter and do anything necessary to get this class and get that ability. It essentially completely removes the biggest weakness of enchanters; things that are immune to mind-affecting effects.

I like this idea, and I've already taken Nightmare spinner, but regarding Nightmare Spinner, the DM pretty much rules things read-as-written (RAW), so no dice.

And as before, will all those ideas be able to take down a team of balors and tarrasques?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 01:15:37 PM by Sachiru »

Agita

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2010, 01:13:05 PM »
Cool ideas from all, thanks!

BTW, what's a thrallherd and where can I find it in the sourcebooks?
Psionic PrC that basically gives you Leadership on crack. XPH.
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Sachiru

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2010, 01:18:14 PM »
Uh, I guess that Thrallherd won't work, due to the fact that it's an arena-type game, and that we are given no downtime in between matches. To be specific, our characters are playthings by the gods, where we are teleported into a random plane (and leave cohorts/followers/thralls behind) and faced with nearly-impossible enemies. The only way to multiply our ranks is to either summon extraplanars, use the summon nature's ally or summon monster spells, and mind control.

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2010, 01:19:04 PM »
You'll want to pick up landlord, and get a flying deadly box.
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Sachiru

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2010, 01:21:44 PM »
Uh, to clarify. We are teleported by Gods, which makes it pretty much impossible for us to bring anyone with us, due to the fact that they are, you know, Gods. They want to test our individual mettle and view bringing allies as cheating. Even summoning allies is frowned upon, thus the only reliable method is mind control.

Agita

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2010, 01:23:53 PM »
He's not talking about bringing allies with you, he's talking about bringing a fortress with you. That's more like really big equipment.
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Sachiru

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Re: Advice needed for building a Lelouch
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2010, 01:29:43 PM »
Uh, sorry about that. The DM ruled that anything that does not fit into a Bag of Holding (Type III) will not be teleported with us.

Specifically, when we are teleported, the only things the gods will teleport with us are a) the clothes on our back, (armor, shields, magical items etc. not included, except for) b) one bag of holding type iii for each character. Thus, we are to place whatever items we wish to bring with us in the bag, and we are given 6 minutes to equip/attune/prepare them, and for casting buffs.