Author Topic: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?  (Read 12137 times)

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JohnOSevens

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Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« on: July 07, 2010, 10:38:18 PM »
I mean as a playable race? +3LA on top of 2HD means they start off at ECL 5, which isn't great, but they have tasty stats, their poison is basically save-or-die, and they're /tiny/, which has to be good for something.

I'm thinking something involving levels of Rogue, but I'm not entirely sure. All I know is ECL 5 means he probably can't be a caster...
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2010, 10:56:38 PM »
Well, mindsight is obvious.  I've heard they make pretty decent initiators. 
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carnivore

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 02:29:50 PM »
what type of character are you looking for?

 :D

shades of eternity

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2010, 02:53:11 PM »
cripse I haven't, but I think a "mini-dragon" with the ability to tweak to cover the basics through either feats or talents to emulate the various dragons sounds awesome.

Prime32

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 03:45:21 PM »
Some stuff here can be applied: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7414.msg243600#msg243600


Awaken Frightful Presence + Dreadful Wrath = frightful presence with +2 DC, and a range of either 30ft or 50ft. Also consider Awaken Spell Resistance.

Draconic Aura, since you count as [dragonblood]

Despite being Tiny, you have 5ft reach with your sting. Mourning Mutate + Inhuman Reach increases that to 10ft, which no one will see coming. If you reduce your size by one category, or your ally is Large, you can share a space with them and defend them. Picture a guy with a pseudodragon sitting on his shoulder which lashes out and kills anyone who comes near him.

If you go warlock and take the Eldritch Claws feat you qualify for Rapidstrike.

You get Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, so dip swordsage and take Shadow Blade to remove your dependence on Str.

Wear a pectoral of maneuverability to get a (perfect) fly speed, and take Air Heritage to boost it to 30ft.

Ability Focus (poison) + Virulent Poison grant a final DC of (10 +1/2 HD +6)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 04:05:46 PM by Prime32 »
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daken201

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2010, 04:02:08 PM »
I always loved the idea of a Pseudodragon Dragonfire Adept.
A tiny Dragon with a BIG breath... lol just love the image of a house cat sized dragon cutting loose with a fife fold breath of tiamat. lol

shades of eternity

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2010, 05:25:46 PM »
well, I've been doing some studies on critters in d20 and found out the hard way that without some serious cost, small and medium have to be the default.

too big and big monsters end up with a "glass chin" in return for their stats and reach

too small and they are either too small to do much or are very scarry (especially true with spellcasters and rogues).


carnivore

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2010, 05:50:20 PM »
"Judge me by my size do you" ... Yoda

small and Tiny characters do have an advantage when they are Spell casters .... especially a Pseudodragon, since you can Buy-off the LA

even in a CORE only setting, they can be a lot of fun .... but then are more Scouting only types

heres a Fun Core Only Build:

Super Scout
Pseudodragon 5/ Ranger 3/ Fighter 4/ Horizon Walker 8
BAB +17

Blindsense 60'
Darkvision 120'
Low light Vision
Tremorsense 30'

Flight 60'(Good)
Dimension Door (every 1d4 rounds)

great stealth also

 :D

carnivore

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2010, 05:55:28 PM »
with LA Buyoff .... heres a simple one:

Psuedodragon 2/ Ardent 8/ Slayer 10

BAB +18
Manifester level 20th, with 9th lvl Powers

feats required:
Practiced manifester
Track

suggested fun feats:
Improved Flight(Good to Perfect)
Air Heritage(+30 flight Speed)


very strong even without Buffing .... could be used as a Blaster

 :D

carnivore

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2010, 06:12:51 PM »
heres a real fun EVIL build for a CORE only game:

Psuedodragon 5/ Fighter 2/ Ranger 3/ Blackguard 10

BAB +18
4th lvl Divine Spells(Blackguard)
Turn Undead
Cha to Saves
3d6 Sneak Attack

 :D

skydragonknight

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2010, 06:19:42 PM »
Somehow I get the image of Nall from the Lunar games saying "I smite you, do-gooders!" in a squeeky voice.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

carnivore

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2010, 06:21:13 PM »
heres one that even makes Duelist playable .... in a CORE only setting



The Little Whipper-Snapper


Pseudodragon 5/ Fighter 4/ Duelist 10/ Horizon Walker 1


Base Stats: (25pt Buy)

6 Str(10-4 Racial)
18 Dex(14+4 Racial)
14 Con(12+2 Racial)
16 Int(16)
10 Wis(8+2 Racial)
11 Cha(11)

@20th lvl:
10 Str(10-4 Racial+ 4 Belt)
30 Dex(14+4 Racial +4 Lvls +2 Tome +6 Gloves)
20 Con(12+2 Racial +6 Amulet)
26 Int(16 +4 Tome+ 6 headband)
10 Wis(8+2 Racial)
11 Cha(11)


Feats:
Weapon Focus(Sting)(Fighter bonus)
Weapon Specialization(Sting) (Fighter bonus)
Improved Initiative(Fighter bonus)
Weapon Finnesse(Dragon Bonus)
Alertness(Dragon Bonus)
Deflect Arrows(Duelist bonus)
1st lvl: Flyby Attack
3rd lvl: Dodge
6th lvl: Mobility
9th lvl: Hover
12th lvl: Endurance
15th lvl: Wingover
18th lvl: Abiltiy Focus(Poison)



Items:
16000gp +4 Belt of Str
36000gp +6 Gloves of Dex
36000gp +6 Headband of Int
186000gp +6 Amulet of Con +5 Amulet of Mighty Fists
64000gp +8 Bracers of Armor
55000gp +2 Tome of Dex
110000gp +4 Tome of Int



BAB +17
Initiative: +18
AC 43 = (+10 Base +8 Int +10 Dex +4 Natural Armor +2 Size +8 Armor +1 Dodge)
AC 51 vs AoO from Movement
AC 56 when Fighting Defensively(5 ranks Tumble + Elaborate Parry)
AC 64 vs AoO from Movement when Fighting Defensively


Attacks:
+17 BAB +10 Dex +5 Enhancement +1 WF +2 Size= +35 to Attack

Full Attack with Sting and Bite=
+33 Sting(1d3(2 average) +5 Enhancement +2 WSp + 2d6 Precise strike(7 average) = 16 damage + Poison(Fortitude DC 20) initial damage sleep for 1 minute, secondary damage sleep for 1d3 hours

+29 Bite(+1 bite +5 Enhancement) = +6 Damage

Tactics..... constant Flyby Attacks(Fighting Defensively) .... with Sting(+31 to Hit, 16 damage+ Poison(DC20 , Sleep 1 min/ Sleep 1d3 hours).... AC 56(64 vs AoO)

if it is more important to hit a High AC, then dont fight Defensively... attacks @+35, AC 43(51 vs Movement)

Great Scouting ability ... Fly 60 ft. (good), Tiny Size, Good Skills(great Hide Checks)... also:

low-light vision
darkvision 60 ft.
Blindsense 60 ft.
immunity to sleep and paralysis
spell resistance 19
telepathy 60 ft


 :D
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 02:11:12 PM by carnivore »

Rebel7284

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2010, 06:33:31 PM »
Druid + Venomfire?
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skydragonknight

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2010, 06:33:48 PM »
Carnivore: Would also make good use of Robilar's Gambit if PHB2 is allowed, and it usually is.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Widow

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2010, 12:47:02 AM »
I might go:

Pseudo dragon 2HD+3LA/ex-Cleric 1/Monk 1/Beguiler 1/Ur-Priest 2/ Dweomerkeeper 10

L1 Education
L3 Spell Focus Evil
L3 Scribe Scroll (Rune Domain bonus from cleric)
L4 Iron will (Oriental Adventures Monk Bonus Feat)
L6 Extend Spell
L9 Persistent Spell
L12 Divine Metamagic
L15 Easy Metamagic Persistent
L18 Practiced Spell Caster

or maybe

Pseudo dragon 2HD+3LA/ Ardent 3/ Thrallherd 10/ Ardent 2

Nothing like having an army at your back.

Surreal

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2010, 01:38:46 AM »
Is weapon specialization really an effective feat to have in the whipper snapper build? Since you have dodge and mobility and flyby, why not improved flyby?
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Tshern

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2010, 03:25:21 AM »
I might go:

Pseudo dragon 2HD+3LA/ex-Cleric 1/Monk 1/Beguiler 1/Ur-Priest 2/ Dweomerkeeper 10

L1 Education
L3 Spell Focus Evil
L3 Scribe Scroll (Rune Domain bonus from cleric)
L4 Iron will (Oriental Adventures Monk Bonus Feat)
L6 Extend Spell
L9 Persistent Spell
L12 Divine Metamagic
L15 Easy Metamagic Persistent
L18 Practiced Spell Caster
I might remember wrong, but Dweomerkeeper requires access to Magic domain. Also, doesn't Ur-Priest take away all class features you had as a Cleric? In this case, Scribe scroll would be gone. And no need for that Monk level, use the Otyugh hole magical location.

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carnivore

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2010, 08:15:13 AM »
Is weapon specialization really an effective feat to have in the whipper snapper build? Since you have dodge and mobility and flyby, why not improved flyby?
not really ... but considering that it is a CORE only it seemed ok .... Improved Flyby is from Savage Species or EPIC handbook .... but not CORE,  but it is in the SRD

 :D

carnivore

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2010, 08:49:45 AM »
here are some fun feats for use with Psuedodragons that have some interesting Optimization possibilities:

Air Heritage
Type: Heritage
Source: Planar Handbook

You are descended from creatures native to the Elemental Plane of Air. You share some of your ancestors' natural agility and grace.

Benefit: Your fly speed increases by 30 feet (up to a maximum increase equal to your normal fly speed). If you don't have a fly speed as a racial ability, this benefit has no effect. You also gain a +2 bonus on Balance and Jump checks when carrying a light load or no load and wearing light armor or no armor.



Wing Expert
Type: Tactical
Source: Races of the Dragon

You can use your wings to create a variety of effects.

Prerequisite: Flyby Attack, wings and a glide or fly speed.
Benefit: The Wing Expert feat enables the use of three tactical maneuvers.
Wing Buffet: To use this maneuver, you must charge an opponent. On the round after the charge, you can flutter your wings in a distracting manner while you make a melee attack or attacks against the same opponent you charged. If that opponent fails a DC 20 Reflex save, you gain a +2 bonus for your turn on your melee attack rolls against the distracted opponent. You cannot make a wing buffet again until after you make another charge.
Wing Defense: To use this maneuver, you must have taken the total defense action. On the round after doing so, if you do not use your wings to fly, you can flutter your wings in such a way as to gain concealment for the round.
Wing Fan: To use this maneuver, you must have used at least one move action in the previous round to fly or glide at least 30 feet. As a full-round action in the next round, you can use your wings to produce an effect identical to a gust of wind spell with a range of 30 feet. Using this maneuver makes you fatigued. You cannot use this maneuver if you are exhausted.



Barbed Stinger
Type: Monstrous
Source: Serpent Kingdoms

Your stinger is unusually difficult to dislodge.

Prerequisite: Sting attack.
Benefit: You gain the improved grab special attack with your sting. If you hit an opponent of any size with your sting attack, you can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If you win the grapple check, you establish a hold and deal automatic sting damage (including poison, if applicable) each round that the hold is maintained.




Prehensile Tail
Type: Monstrous
Sources: Serpent Kingdoms and Savage Species

You can use your tail to manipulate objects.

Prerequisite: Str 13, tail attack, Two-Weapon Fighting
Benefit: You can use your tail as an extra "hand." It can grasp melee weapons and use them in combat, although the normal penalties for using an off-hand weapon apply. If you have two hands, your tail counts as a third hand for the purpose of the Multiweapon Fighting feat and all feats that use Multiweapon Fighting as a prerequisite.
You can also use your tail as a "hand" to assist in grapple checks and Climb checks. You gain a +2 competence bonus on all such checks.


Great Flyby Attack
Type: General
Source: Savage Species

You can make multiple flyby attacks in a round.

Prerequisite: Fly speed, Flyby Attack.
Benefit: Using this feat is a full-round action. When flying, you can move up to your fly speed in a straight line and attack a number of opponents equal to your Dexterity bonus. All targets must be within your reach along the line of your movement. Make one attack roll, add the appropriate modifiers, and compare the result to the AC of each opponent you are attacking. If any hits are successful, make one damage roll and add the appropriate modifiers. Each successful hit does the full damage to that creature; do not divide the result of the damage roll among the targets. Targets of your attack do not get attacks of opportunity against you, but other opponents that would be entitled to attacks of opportunity may take them.
Normal: Without this feat, a creature can make a single flyby attack in a round.


 :D

Prime32

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Re: Has anyone ever optimized Pseudodragon?
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2010, 11:37:12 AM »
While Barbed Stinger seems pretty cool, you are Tiny. You can't grapple very well unless you get rid of that.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]