Author Topic: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker  (Read 3967 times)

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Jopustopin

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Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« on: July 07, 2010, 08:04:01 PM »
I started this character last session and found out that the campaign is suppose to start at level 1 and run to level 30.  I began my character without much foresight other than I wanted to be a skill monkey cleric that goes into Malconvoker.   So here is what I currently have:

Level 1 Cloistered Cleric
[spoiler]
Male human cleric 1
TN medium humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Listen -1, Spot -1 (Trait: Focused)
Languages Common, Celestial, Infernal, Abyssal, Terran, Undercommon
AC 11, touch 11, flat-footed 10
hp 9 (1d6+3)

Speed 30 feet
Melee Club +2 (1d6+3/x2)
Melee Boot Blade +0 (1d4+2/19-20)
Ranged Club +1 (1d6+2/x2)
BAB +0;Grp+2
Combat Options Travel Domain Granted Power, Turn Undead
Spells Prepared (CL 1st)
0st 0-Create Water, Create Water, Purify Food and Drink
1st 1-Comprehend Language, Delay Disease, True StrikeD

Abilities Str 14, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 12
Feats Able Learner 1st, Improved Initiative Time Domain, Academic Priest Human Bonus Feat, Knowledge Devotion Traded Knowledge Domain
Skills Appraise +6, Bluff +3, Concentration +8, Knowledge (Arcana, History, Local, Religion, The Planes) +8, Knowledge (Dungeoneering, Nature, Architecture and Engineering, Geography, Nobility and royalty) +6, Spellcraft +8, Spot -1, Listen -1, Survival +1
Possessions
More Abilities Lore (Ex), Trait (Focused)

Deities Favored Weapon Club
Domains Time, Travel (Deity has Protection, Time, Travel, Magic and Earth)
Academic Priest Bonus spells and max spell known are keye'd off Int.  Spell save DC's are still keye'd off wisdom.
Stupid Spell Selection Ignore the spell selection; character's background required non-adventurous spells for the first day.


[/spoiler]
The group has: Jester (Dragon Compendium), Psychic Warrior, Druid, Beguiler

I was thinking of doing the following to expand my skill list:
Level 2: Human Paragon
Level 3: Human Paragon (Protection Devotion, Spell Focus (Conjuration))
Level 4: Human Paragon
Level 5: Cleric
Level 6: Cleric (Augment Summoning)
Level 7 - 15: Malconvoker


Any suggestions for levels 16 through 30?  Feats that would help an epic level malconvoker?  I didn't know the campaign went through level 30 until after we started playing and I don't know anything at all about epic levels. 

Endarire

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2010, 08:32:38 PM »
In epic, you have magic or you're in BIG trouble.  Likely, the enemy has antimagic.  Find how to be useful even when magic won't normally function.  Initiate of Mystra (Player's Guide to Faerun 81) helps much.

Also, summon minions with spell resistance.  Then they have a chance of not winking out in antimagic areas.

Finally, see my COnjurer for inspiration.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Vicerious

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2010, 08:47:18 PM »
You might want to switch your ability scores around.  Since clerics are Wis-based casters, a Wis score of 10 will only let you cast orisons (0th level spells).  That 18 in Int is great for skill points, but you'll be better served in the long run with a higher Wisdom.

If you plan on becoming an epic spellcaster (and yes, you're planning on it), be sure to keep Knowledge (religion) and Spellcraft maxed out.  The knowledge determines how many epic spells per day you can cast, and Spellcraft determines which epic spells you can research and cast.

For classes, more cleric is bland but very effective.  If you want to bolster your summons some more, thaumaturge (DMG) or paragnostic apostle (CC) have some goodies for you.

You might want to consider Rapid Spell and DMM (Rapid Spell) so you can use your turn attempts to reduce the casting time of the summon spells from 1 round to 1 standard action.
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Jopustopin

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2010, 08:56:47 PM »
I took the feat Academic Priest.  I cast with intelligence (although the DC's for my spells are based on Wisdom).

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 08:31:44 AM »
Convince your DM you should be allowed to use Fiendish Summoning Specialist to summon Hellfire Wyrms at some point in epic.  It's probably not supposed to work that way, but you'll be the most bad ass summoner around.

Rebel7284

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2010, 11:00:18 AM »
With Academic Priest, why not just play an archivist?  Too late now I guess.
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Ramaloke

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2010, 11:21:11 AM »
So your DC's suck. Thats not good. Not even as a malconvoker. Remember, your DCs are going to have a great deal to do with what you can bind through the planar binding spells. You should either do archivist or cleric, int based or wis based. Make the choice, but dont gimp your spell DCs. If you do, you will find that you wont survive epic at all.
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Echoes

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2010, 12:06:50 PM »
There are three basic spellcasting strategies that are Epic-viable, and yes, Epic Spellcasting is pretty much mandatory.

1) The Buffer: This guy stacks piles of long-duration/Persisted buffs on himself to become nigh-unstoppable, and then plows through everything he faces. Clerics can pull this off with DMM: Persistant Spell + Nightsticks, and Wizards can go Incantatrix/Epic Incantatrix. This one is pretty easy to do, but not really what you're working towards.

2) The Blaster: Yes, standard CO thought is that blasting is underpowered because save-or-lose/dies are more efficient, and that's true to a point. Once you hit Epic, enemy saves continue to progress (often at absurd rates) while your DCs ... don't. In addition, Epic creatures tend to pack a massive array of immunities, so damage becomes pretty much the only thing that works well. Plus, if you optimize your damage output, you can easily drop any printed monster in one round, often with only one or two spell slots. This is, however, not really for a Cleric.

3) The Summoner: This is you. The Epic PrC you will take, despite not having full advancement, is Cosmic Descryer. The stacking +4 HD cap to your planar binding spells you can keep calling bigger and bigger minions. Everything else is meh, but that ability alone will let you remain viable.

Before epic, but after you finish Malconvoker, grab a few levels of Paragnostic Apostle. Some of the bonuses apply to summoning and thus make you better at your job.

Also, I have to second the advice regarding your stats: you will need save DCs to a certain degree, so either go Archivist w/ Academic Priest, which just makes you Int-based all over, or else stick with Cleric. Honestly, Archivist is probably stronger assuming your DM lets you have ready access to divine scrolls.
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Jopustopin

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2010, 09:50:37 PM »
Yeah I fumbled badly. I thought at most the game would go to level 20 and that this would be a refreshing way to play a cleric.  I'm pretty much limited to being a buffer at epic levels.  Almost everything I have at level 1 is set in stone.  You know maybe I'll end up dying and this will be moot.  You guys see anything wrong with my build intention for  the early levels 1 - 15 ?

AngellusMortus

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2010, 10:00:08 PM »
I HIGHLY recommend the Epic prestige class Cosmic Descryer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/prestigeClasses/cosmicDescryer.htm). First of all, the 7th level ability allows you to, with a bit of manipulation, gain essentially infinite CL for minutes per class level. That alone makes most people love this PrC. However, as a Malconvoker, this class actually benefits you particularly well, because the bonuses to Gate, Planar Bind and Summon Monster synergize perfectly. Technically, with the Malconvoker 2HD bonus on Planar Bind plus the first HD bonus from Cosmic Descryer, you can actually start binding Demon Princes and Lords of Hell from the Fiendish Codexes. Yes, binding. I don't necessarily guarantee that there won't be incredible, horrible consequences for those actions...but you can have a hell of a time with it while you can.  ;)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2010, 04:59:29 PM by AngellusMortus »

Endarire

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2010, 06:49:40 PM »
Paragnostic Apostle1 nets you fast healing for your summons.  Take that.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Echoes

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2010, 02:27:23 AM »
Yeah I fumbled badly. I thought at most the game would go to level 20 and that this would be a refreshing way to play a cleric.  I'm pretty much limited to being a buffer at epic levels.  Almost everything I have at level 1 is set in stone.  You know maybe I'll end up dying and this will be moot.  You guys see anything wrong with my build intention for  the early levels 1 - 15 ?

Seriously, just tell your DM "Look, I screwed up with my stats because I didn't know we'd be going Epic. Is it ok if I just swap them around?" Or just keep the stats and ask if you can switch to Archivist (this works better in some ways).

Other than that, Human Paragon is gonna hurt. You're already losing 1 CL from Malconvoker, losing the 2nd is rough. I mean, you can manage, but your spellcasting is effectively as good as a cohort's. Now, don't get me wrong, I love Human Paragon, but I really don't think it's worth the lost CL in this case. Other than that, it seems fine. Something to consider would be Thaumaturgist, as well as Paragnostic Apostle. Fast Healing for all your summons = goodness, plus free Augment Summoning (retrain the one you took early for something else), an extra summon each day, and free extend on all your summons (which should stack with Malconvoker's version, for triple-duration summons!) are all solid.

Honestly, I'd build it like this (if I don't list a feat, you can take whatever helps your build most. I like Rapid Spell/DMM Rapid Spell):
01 - Cleric 1 - Take Trickery, Knowledge, Summoning (not needed, but nice). Spell Focus (Conjuration), whatever.
02 - Cleric 2
03 - Cleric 3 -Augment Summoning (retrain this @ level 12)
04 - Cleric 4
05 - Cleric 5
06 - Malconvoker 1
07 - Malconvoker 2
08 - Malconvoker 3
09 - Malconvoker 4
10 - Malconvoker 5
11 - Thaumaturgist 1
12 - Thaumaturgist 2 - Augment Summoning (Bonus)
13 - Thaumaturgist 3
14 - Thaumaturgist 4
15 - Malconvoker 6
16 - Malconvoker 7
17 - Malconvoker 8
18 - Malconvoker 9
19 - Paragnostic Apostle 1
20 - Paragnostic Apostle 2/Whatever you want

After that, take Cosmic Descryer in epic. You'll definitely want to get the planar binding line somehow (does Malconvoker grant it? I'm AFB).
BrokeAndDrive speaks the Truth (linked for great justice and signature limits)

Quotes I Found Entertaining:

Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

As a general rule, murdering people and taking their stuff is pretty much superior to breaking their stuff, murdering them, then not having any stuff to take.

Out of Context Theater
[spoiler]
Oh I'll make a party. I'll make a party so hard... I'll make a party that makes you feel so awkward downstairs.

You'll see the party and only be able to respond, "Oh yeah baby."
[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2010, 03:15:02 AM »
(which should stack with Malconvoker's version, for triple-duration summons!) are all solid.
When you multiply time in D&D, you use real world mathematics, so the summons would last four times as long as normal. Real world values such as time, weight and distance use actual mathematics, not the same as Power attack calculations and such.

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2010, 03:45:07 AM »
Even though it's half-casting, Cosmic Descryer does look like it's worth it for an epic summoner. 

Jopustopin

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2010, 05:15:39 AM »
Okay I've been doing some reading and have several questions.

1) If I do lose 2 caster levels (1 from human paragon and 1 from malconvoker) I would just get them back at level 22 and 24 right (Comic Descryer)?

2) How do I get planar binding on my spell list?

3) Is there any way to make a cleric build that does not require saving throw DC's?  

4)That is, couldn't I just use the Superior Planar summoning ability to summon advanced versions of the Summon Monster IX line?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 05:18:37 AM by Jopustopin »

Endarire

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2010, 05:51:17 AM »
Malconvoker already gives you the planar binding series.

Summoning, buffing, and healing require no saves.
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Jopustopin

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Re: Epic Level Advice: Malconvoker
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2010, 07:55:35 AM »
Okay I talked to my DM and basically he won't let me change my class or my stats.  I might be able to retrain my feats in the future.  So I was thinking...

1) Cloistered Cleric (Time, Travel) [Knowledge Devotion]
2 - 9) Archivist
10-18) Malconvoker
19-21)Paragonostic Apostile
22-30)Cosmic Descryer