Author Topic: Shadowchar help needed plz  (Read 6444 times)

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veekie

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2010, 05:24:39 PM »
Level: 11th-12th, extends to 20th eventually
Abilities: Point Buy or Rolled? If rolled, what numbers?
Sources: All WotC non psionic published material
Concept: Sneaky-Stabbity.

That more or less right?
Any house rules in play?
Restrictions on race/alignment/etc?
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[spoiler]
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Athanasie

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2010, 05:29:41 PM »
Yes veekie, thank you very much. I am a little bit helpless, so thanks again.
I can roll the abilities, said the DM, but if you think buy is better, I would do this. If roll, I roll them tomorrow and post them :-)
Maybe there are some tricks too to raise my abilities? (Reading the dirty trick handbook at Moment xD)
Only 3.5 Rules without Psionics.

Concept: Sneaking, surviving (all) Char, the person he rescue at first is his self. Then him again, then nothing, then the rest...want to play it, how he learns....

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2010, 05:35:45 PM »
I can roll the abilities, said the DM, but if you think buy is better, I would do this. If roll, I roll them tomorrow and post them :-)
It depends on how you're rolling them, and the point buy you're using...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Athanasie

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2010, 05:52:04 AM »
Good morning ^^

So, my stats rolled are: 14, 11, 17, 16, 12, 16...not bad, eh? :)
Or would it be better to buy?

Athanasie

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2010, 06:10:53 AM »
I'd suggest a Dark (Tome of Magic) Whisper Gnome (Races of Stone) with the Troll-blooded feat (some dragon magazine, and Dragon Compendium, IIRC). You'll have hide in plain sight, great hide and move silently modifiers, and regeneration 1. You'll be fatigued in sunlight, unless you take another feat to counteract that. I know there is one that works for that, but I forget the name...
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 06:29:20 AM by Athanasie »

Athanasie

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2010, 06:24:51 AM »
Just taking the Shadow Creature template from Lords of Madness seems to get you what you want; it's the beefed up version of the dark template, and one of the options is fast healing 2.  +2 LA, and it also gets you Cold resist 5+HD (max 15), total concealment at all times except under full natural daylight and daylight, and +6 racial mod to move silently.  You also get +50% speed, and increasing abilities as you gain HD (plane shift to/from Plane of Shadow 1/day, DR 5/magic, +2 luck bonus to all saves, evasion, fast healing 2, Mirror Image 1/day.)

Does the Dark template give you a bonus to hide?  I guess I find it odd that one is supposed to be a weaker version of the other, but they might give bonuses to different skills...

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2010, 09:35:25 AM »
The Dark template is from "Tome of Magic." It has a mostly black cover, with a man sharing the same space as a bluish ephemeral spirit. The Dark Template is also listed briefly in the Forgotten Realms adventure "Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave," p. 152, though it might just be a pared-down description.

Troll-Blooded isn't from Dragon Compendium; it was only in a Dragon Magazine, though I don't know the issue number.
Dragon Compendium was a hard-cover book published by Piazo/Wizards of the Coast, and is an updated compilation of several things throughout Dragon Magazine's run, even from 1st and 2nd edition.

Looking at the Dark Template, I see it does give skill boosts to both Hide and Move Silently, Resist Cold 10, +10 movement, and hide in plain sight.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 09:37:55 AM by ksbsnowowl »
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Athanasie

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2010, 09:47:15 AM »
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 09:49:44 AM by Athanasie »

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2010, 01:29:10 PM »
I think Dark One was from the Fiend Folio. You can find many feats from Dragon magazine as well as many D&D books at www.crystalkeep.com. I think Troll-blooded is on there. It gives you regeneration 1 (Fire and Acid) at the cost of making you fatigued while in sunlight.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2010, 01:55:07 PM »
I think Dark One was from the Fiend Folio. You can find many feats from Dragon magazine as well as many D&D books at www.crystalkeep.com. I think Troll-blooded is on there. It gives you regeneration 1 (Fire and Acid) at the cost of making you fatigued while in sunlight.
Dark Ones are from the Fiend Folio.  There are two types.  Dark Creepers are small, have 1 HD, and +4 LA.
Dark Stalkers are Medium, have 3 HD, and +5 LA.

There is a sidebar or "Dark Ones as Characters" section that confuses matters though, as it says a first level Rogue Dark Creeper is a 5th level character (correct, as it has only one HD, and thus is replaced by class HD), but also says a first level rogue Dark Stalker is an ECL 6 character.

Here is the text of the Troll-Blooded feat, though I am missing a few of the role-play requirements (they were Human, from 3 different human regions of Greyhawk).

Troll-Blooded [General]
You are from a troll bloodline.
Prerequisite: Toughness.
Benefit: You gain regeneration 1 as an extraordinary ability. Fire and acid deal normal damage to you. If you lose a limb or a body part, the lost portion regrows in 3d6 days. You can reattach the severed member as a full-round action by holding it to the stump. You are fatigued while exposed to sunlight.
Special: You can take this feat at 1st level only.
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Athanasie

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2010, 05:45:35 PM »
Thx, I will look for them :)

Ok, I had some thoughts....

I would like to have a charakter with:
- sr
- bonus to hide and ms from race
- fast healing at least 2 or regeneration
- ability boost at least in dex (more would be nice ^^) from race
- natural armor (no must have)
- the monk ability to have wisdom (or Int, if this is possible?) modifier on ac class, but no real monk, I would like to take 2 Kukri as weapons
- many feats, that I can take exotic weapons, weapon focus, improved crit (or a weapon which has sharp(?))
- evasion (even better improved)
- the ability or spell to get higher skill in hide and ms
- hips
- higher speed
-and all other stuff what would be great for shadowhide (what your ideas are...)

Is THIS all possible?

So ppplllllleeeeaaaasssseeeee help me....I beg you!  :shrug :scared :ninja
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 07:01:38 PM by Athanasie »

Athanasie

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2010, 08:33:25 AM »
I found out that vampires have +8 to hide and ms and fast healing 5. Is there a version of a template or so without all these transform into swarn or wolf, dominate and this and has a lower LA?

Ivory Knight

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2010, 09:43:19 AM »
Some of your features can be gained from Classes/Prestigeclasses.
Polymorph or Wildshape into any Form with multiple natural Weapons = pretty decent Sneak Attacks, even better with Skirmish(easier to trigger, trades lower damage for AC-Bonus).
Most Shapeshifters get Natural Armor, but your stats are determined by the average of your new form(Exception: Draconic Polymorph boosts Str & Con).

ATM I don't have the time to flesh out a build, but likely includes:
Shifter(Races of Eberron, MM III), Hengeyokai(Oriental Adventures) or Changeling(Eberron) with some low LA template applied
Druid, Wildshape Ranger(Alternate Class Feature from SRD/Unearthed Arcana) or Shapeshifter(PrC from Oriental Adventures)
Nature's Warrior(Complete Warrior), Warshaper(same book) or Feral Template(Savage Species, 3.0 and likely to be disallowed by DM) for fast healing
Swordsage(Tome of Battle) for Assasins Stance(2d6 sneak) & Wis to AC, Scout(Complete Adventurer) or Halfling Monk(Races of the Wild) for Skirmish

Rogue/ Hexblade can get you Mettle & Evasion

ksbsnowowl

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2010, 10:28:02 AM »
I found out that vampires have +8 to hide and ms and fast healing 5. Is there a version of a template or so without all these transform into swarn or wolf, dominate and this and has a lower LA?
The half vampire from Libris Mortis has only +1 LA (opposed to the Vampire's +8), gets you fast healing 1 (but only up to half your hp's, then it stops working), racial bonuses (+2) to Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, and Spot, DR 5/Magic or Silver, Resist Cold 5, Resist Electricity 5, grants improved initiative, and gets you one other ability (children of the night or a charm gaze).  Oh, and +2 Str, Dex, and Cha. And +2 Natural Armor.

All that without the pesky death-by-sunlight thing, and the horrendous Level Adjustment.

That, paired with the Troll-Blooded feat, and possibly the Dark Template, wouldn't be too bad, especially if it was ruled that the racial bonuses to skills stacked (and they should, since they come from different racial "sources".)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 10:29:39 AM by ksbsnowowl »
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Athanasie

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2010, 10:38:57 AM »
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 11:24:38 AM by Athanasie »

Ivory Knight

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2010, 03:46:07 PM »
Yes, for LA matters for PC and CR is or Monsters, Half Vampire is actually half decent(pun intended).

The Dark Template IS in Tome of Magic, Unapproachable East(Forgotten Realms) has the Shadowwalker(Upside: Spellike Abilities; Downside: No HiPS & Light Blindness).

Emphasis mine(bolded text):
Quote
I would like to have a charakter with:
- sr
No, you don't want this permanently. Get a Cloak, if you want it in some situations.
- bonus to hide and ms from race
Just take something small, Whisper Gnome comes to mind.
- fast healing at least 2 or regeneration
Troll Blooded(Greyhawk Regional Feat) was from Dragon #319, only regeneration 1(fire & acid)
Nature's Warrior(fast healing 1, while wildshaped) and Warshaper(fast healing 2, while not in your true form) are Prestigeclasses from Complete Warrior

- ability boost at least in dex (more would be nice ^^) from race
Whisper Gnomes have Dex& Con, Shifters Dex & one out of Str, Dex, Con or Wis while shifting only
- natural armor (no must have)
Shifting(Beasthide) and/or Wildshape(various), stack by the way. There are Feats for the Barbarian to gain NA while raging(IIRC in FR Unapproachable East & either Frostburn or Sandstorm)
- the monk ability to have wisdom (or Int, if this is possible?) modifier on ac class, but no real monk, I would like to take 2 Kukri as weapons
Tome of Battle: Swordsage 2(even in light armor!) & Complete Adventurer: Ninja; Duelist & Invisible Blade gain a weaker version(Int to AC, up to +1 per classlevel), Invisible Blade also uses TWF with Kukri.
- many feats, that I can take exotic weapons, weapon focus, improved crit (or a weapon which has sharp(?))
Swordsages gain multiple Weapon Foci, the otherwise bad PrC Master of Masks(Complete Scoundrel) gets all Exotic Weapons. Improved Crit doesn't stack with Kenn, so I'd take the lower investment and buy a Keen Weapon.
- evasion (even better improved)
A whole lot of classes get that somewhere, just check the Handbooks section. Out of the top of my head: Ninja, Rogue, Monk & Scout 2; Ranger ~9ish?
- the ability or spell to get higher skill in hide and ms
Factotum can boost any skill, Blade Meditation(Shadow Hand) gets +2 Hide; there might be more specific spells, but Invisibility & Flight should do fine.
- hips
Highlevel Ranger(IIRC 17), Shadowdancer 1 or Dark Creature Template. Maybe some PrC, I can't think of at the moment
- higher speed
Fast Movement(Class Feature), Fleet of Foot(Feat), Wildshape, some Spells: Expidious Retreat, Longstrider(Ranger), Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange
-and all other stuff what would be great for shadowhide (what your ideas are...)
Sneak Attack, or Skirmish to do some damage. Remember: If they can't see you, you get +2 to hit ;) Pounce or Shadowpounce to get off a Full Attack after moving/teleporting up to your foe.
I can't cram all these wishes into a few levels, so we need to figure out what's most important.
Wildshape, or no Wildshape?
With Wildshape, I'd go for LN (Strongheart, if FR)Halfling Monk 2(gets Skirmish, via Racial Level from RotW)/Druid 5(don't take the racial level, that nerfs your WS)/ Nature's Warrior 2(lose spell progression, gain fast healing 1)/Daggerspell Shaper X(9/10 Spellcasting, progresses WS & Skirmish)
or
any race Wildshape Ranger 5/Nature's Warrior X(could take all 5 levels, spell progression is not as important as for Druid)/ Swordsage 2/Daggerspell Shaper X
Skirmish, or Sneak Attack?
Skirmish(a little damage + a little AC) triggers by movement, Sneak(lots of damage) triggers by flanking/flatfooting enemies. Both have their merits.
Books allowed/available?
You said, you don't have any Tome of ..., so what Do you have?

Feral Template was AFAIK never reprinted in 3.5, so you're stuck with Savage Species.

Many Classes get Bonus Feats: Binder(IIRC 3-4 Feats), Cleric(2 Feats, just look at some Domains: Blindfight, Extend Spell, Extra Turning, Imp. Ini), Fighter(11 Feats), Monk(3 Feats), Warblade(IIRC 4 Feats), Wizard(4 Feats), a whole bunch of PrC(too many to list them all, sorry).

Athanasie

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2010, 06:23:57 AM »

Ivory Knight

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2010, 06:59:25 PM »
A few answers:
IIRC you need to take a standard action, to lower your Spellresistance until your next turn. Can be pretty lethal, if you're at or below 0 hitpoints and your cleric can't breach your racial SR(if it was from a cloak, he could simply remove it as a move action).

Medium Races with Hide/MS are few and far between(ATM only Skulks from Races of Destiny come to mind).
Umbral is from Savage Species(with is not on your list of books). Also LA +4 is pretty expensive(you can't even buy it off completely. If you're not allowed to use buyoff, never ever take more than 1 or 2 LA.)

If you want Kukri(or really any Weapon), I'd go for TWF. Natural Weapons are gained either from Warshaper(enter with racial abilities, preferably Changeling due to unlimited duration & uses/day), or from Wildshape(great duration and versatility, for 1 feat at level 12 you can even get small/medium Dragon Forms).

Natural Attacks vs. TWF with Weapons comes down to:
3-5 Attacks: 1 at your highest Attack Bonus, the rest at -5(-2 with Multiattack)
or
2-7 Attacks: 2 at highest Attack Bonus -2, then 1-2 at -7(or: 5 more than your primary attacks), then 1-2 at -12, then 1 at -17(unlikely to hit, so I didn't bother with spending a fourth feat to get 8 attacks)

It pretty much boils down to
- Feat Investment needed, to be effective(TWF could get away with 1 Feat + Gloves of the balanced Hand from MIC, but some builds sink roundabout 10 feats into improving to-hit, damage and/or AC)
- Crit Range(usually better with weapons)
- Base Damage(can go either way, depends on size)
- Enhancement(magic weapons are cheaper, than to enchant all your Natural Attacks)
- Side Benefits(Natural Weapons can't be disarmed, or sundered. In Antimagic Zones a magic weapon still is a masterwork weapon and your feats are still in effect, while most shapechanging won't work due to being supernatural)

Athanasie

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2010, 05:48:19 AM »

Ivory Knight

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Re: Shadowchar help needed plz
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2010, 09:22:11 AM »
IIRC = If I Remember Correct(ly). Didn't check with SRD or Rulebooks, so I wasn't sure about the action needed to lower your Spellresistance.

I interpreted Umbra as Umbral Creature, a template from Savage Species. Don't have Races of Faerun handy today, so someone else will have to comment your choice of race :rollseyes
Over the course of 20 levels, you could buy off up to LA 3. Any higher, and you're stuck with it(only 1 reduction possible, if I read Unearthed Arcana right).

Packing ~15 levels of PrC into 12 levels is impossible, so you must choose what you want from the start and what can wait till you level up.
My choice would probably be Changeling(check with your DM, if you get access to Chameleon this way. Should work, since Changelings are Half Human/ Half Doppelganger)
Rogue 3-4/ Ranger or Monk(depends on your Fighting Style) 2/ any PrC you like best and can qualify
Leaves you with 6-7 Levels to divide on LA & PrC, provides a solid Skillbase and decent Combat abilities.
Double Evasion(Rogue/Monk), could trade 1 out of 2 for Spell Reflection and still get Imp. Evasion from PrC.