Author Topic: Tank / Healer Help.  (Read 3433 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

A_Shadow_of_Life

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Tank / Healer Help.
« on: July 05, 2010, 08:54:07 PM »
Alright. I am planning on making a character ahead of time for an upcoming game in the near future.

Here's the rules and the like:

Fractional Base Attack and Saves
Gestalt
Flaws (2 max)
Traits (2 max)
Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec and Greater all fold into Weapon Focus, gaining the benefits at the appropriate levels.

Turning Applies to CR, not HD
Everyone gets +2 skill points per level.

Dodge is constant, folds in mobility, and is +2.
Toughness is 2 hitpoints per level. Improved Toughness does not exist.

Max Ranks in skills is your level, you gain a +3 untyped bonus to skills you have ranks in, no x4 at level one, cross class cost is 1 for 1, still max of 1/2 level as normal. Skill Focus is a flat +4, makes the skill a cross class.

In addition, all skill requirements are reduced by 3, and you may ignore one set of requirements (Feats, Spellcasting level, Caster Level, Skills, etc.)

Combat casting requirements switch to Skill Focus (Conc), +2/ +2 feats no longer required, or in play.

3rd Party Material allowed if the DM can get a hold of it and look it over
Level 10
LA Buy off allowed
Weapon Groups
Metamagic costs reduced by 1
Trip Changes: Improved Trip ability counts as an AoO (for the free attack.)
and that's as far as I recall..

What I need help with.. is two possible builds. One a Lockdown build using Stand Still, Tanking basically. And the other is a Divine Caster (Healing being the main role on it.)

EDIT: I forgot the gem. You can pick one class that is sort of caster-like. Psionics, Divine Casting, Arcane, Soul Melding, Binding, Martial Adept, etc. We can pick one and continue basic progression of the ability. (Thus a binder would continue to get additional vestiges and his binder level would equal his level, Meldshaper gets essentia, chakra binds, chakra, soulmelds, and Soul Melding as full level, etc.) You get all the benefits of the 'casting', but not the bonus class features. (Expanded Soul meld capacity, bonus feats, etc.)

((Yes, much of this was taken from Mister Sinister!)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2010, 09:00:48 PM by A_Shadow_of_Life »
:lovefirefox

[spoiler][/spoiler]

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2010, 12:12:43 AM »
Cleric 20//Incarnate 2/Crusader 18

Continue meldshaping progression as your freebie.  You end up with full Incarnate Meldsahping, 9th level manuvers, fixed Crusader stance progression, Cleric 20 goodies, and +19BAB (so Divine Power isn't necessary).  Use the Cleric to buff yourself for combat and to do out-of-combat healing.  Keep Crusader for battlefield control and in-combat healing.  Remember that all Crusader manuvers are Extraordinary (minus Castigating Strike, IIRC) so if you get caught in an AMF, they still work just fine.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Phoenix00

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2010, 01:39:52 AM »
Cloistered Cleric 20//Incarnate 2/Crusader 18

Fixed that for you  ;)

A_Shadow_of_Life

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2010, 07:39:30 AM »
Haha, thanks guys!

Though, if I needed to stick with either or, recommended builds? My group generally prefers people stick to a role, but not -always-, just helps :) (for them)
:lovefirefox

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Mixster

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1642
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2010, 09:08:01 AM »
Remember to throw in a few levels of RKV. You can never go wrong with RKV.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

bearchucks

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 80
  • Being Batman...with chainsaw bearchucks
    • Email
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2010, 11:24:57 AM »
isn't RKV one of those dual-progression things Gestalt doesn't allow?
+1 Cloistered Cleric.  All the sillies you can pull with that, plus the Crusader doing the whole armor and proficiencies and attack bonus and hit-dice thing says you don't need to additionally get them from cleric.

Far as either/or...look for Locke Down somewhere.  The Fighter20 spiked chain master of messing people up.
And on the healing side there's always Radiant Servant or some such.

The skill points thing tends toward opening up skill tricks.  See if there's any you like.
http://www.atomicsockmonkey.com/freebies/di/pdq-core.pdf  The smallest, shortest, simplest ruleset of any RPG I've ever seen.  If 3.5 is too complex and you don't like 4.0, try this.  It has very few rules and is just short of freeform.

snakeman830

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3494
  • BG's resident furry min/maxxer
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2010, 11:52:42 AM »
Question: can Toughness still be taken multiple times?  I'm not reccommending it, but I am curious.  If it does, that could be a way to rack up a ton of hit points.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2010, 12:21:37 PM »
Healing is not a necessary role. It's something that people waste their characters on. Make a cleric that can tank and that doesn't normally heal in combat, but can if he needs to. (Usually by just casting Heal once you hit caster level 11... and Close Wounds as necessary.) Tell your idiot party-mates up-front that you're not healing in combat, and if one of them wants a walking band-aid, that they can take Leadership.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Phoenix00

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2010, 01:50:22 PM »
For the tanking build based off the rules you list (if I am reading it right).

Psychic Warrior 20//Crusader 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter 18

Due to the fact your DM allows you to progress IL (as a type of spellcasting) with only 1 level.
Barbarian is there for pounce
And Psychic Warrior 20 grants you 8 feats as well as powers such as expansion, and Fighter grants you 10 feats or 8 feats if you take Dungeoncrasher.

Rebel7284

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1585
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2010, 02:42:27 PM »
In addition, all skill requirements are reduced by 3, and you may ignore one set of requirements (Feats, Spellcasting level, Caster Level, Skills, etc.)

This screams to me - SUBLIME CHORD!

I think it's a beautiful prestige class, and entering it early makes it pretty damn sexy.

This is just at level 10
Crusader 1/Bard 4/Sublime Chord 2/Mind Bender 1/XX 2  // Cleric 10

Of course you can take take some classes that give you feats and such instead of cleric if you really want to focus on the crazy tripping feat chains (to be fair, a cleric dip is probably good even then since Domains give you feats).

Note, Versatile Spellcaster and Heighten Spell entry used to satisfy casting 3rd level spells prereq.
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Phoenix00

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 275
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2010, 03:18:49 PM »
Rainbow Servant can be entered at level 2 with no feats with those requirements.  Just take 4 levels of other Beguiler, Warmage, or Dread Necromancer if your DM rules with the table instead of the text.  Because of this you may want to do a beguiler instead of a cleric if the game starts after level 11.

Shadowcraft Mage is also ridiculously easy to get into.  Bluff 1 rank, Hide 1 rank, Gnome, Spell Focus Illusion, Ignored Spells: Able to cast at least three illusion spells, including at least one shadow spell of 4th level or higher.  The Rules on Metamagic also means you aren't 1 level behind without earth spell as well (though earth spell is needed to cast 9th level evocation and conjuration spells due to heighten's cap at 9th).

LVL/Side/Side
1 Sorcerer 1/Spellthief 1
2 Shadowcraft Mage 1/Bard 1
3 Shadowcraft Mage 2/Hexblade 1
4 Shadowcraft Mage 3/Hexblade 2
5 Sorcerer 2/Sublime Chord 1
6 Sorcerer 3/Sublime Chord 2
7 Sorcerer 4/Shadowcraft mage 4 (advancing Sublime Chord)
8 Sorcerer 5/Shadowcraft mage 5(advancing Sublime Chord)
9 Sorcerer 6/X 1(advancing Sublime Chord)
10 Sorcerer 7/X 2(advancing Sublime Chord)
11 Sorcerer 8/X 3(advancing Sublime Chord)
12 Sorcerer 9/X 4(advancing Sublime Chord)
13 Sorcerer 10/X 5(advancing Sublime Chord)
14 Sorcerer 11/X 6(advancing Sublime Chord)
Now that Sublime Chord is finished, you take another level of hexblade for mettle.  Followed by more sorcerer or sorcerer prestige.

Trade Familiar for the ability to cast metamagic spells at normal pace.  At level 9 trade this for Divine Companion.
Feats
1 Spellfocus Illusion
1 (flaw) Heighten Spell
1 (flaw) Versatile Spellcaster
3 Master Spellthief
6 Practical Metamagic Heighten
9 Rapid Metamagic
12 Residual Metamagic

Metamagic Storm Quicken Spell

Houserules means you cast Shadowcraft Magic at -1
Practical Metamagic means you cast Shadowcraft Magic at -2
in addition you cast these spells at double your character level due to master spellthief.
You get fast spellcasting advancing getting normal 9th level spells at level 13

A_Shadow_of_Life

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2010, 06:51:46 PM »
Toughness is a one time gem, sorry for not clarifying.

RKV is a Dual-Progression, though it's allowed if you qualify on -one- side.

Reduced Metamagic caps at +0

Rainbow is by text, text trumps table.

And, I am aware healing isn't per se a role, but it is needed in a group, not per se as a cleric. It's just something Clerics do pretty good in addition to beating things into a bloody pulp with spells or mace, sword, etc.

Very awesome suggestions ! Thanks so far, all! =)
:lovefirefox

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Rebel7284

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1585
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2010, 06:59:55 PM »
Frankly, due to the crazy "free progression" rule, a single level of crusader covers BOTH the healing and the tanking/battlefield control role.  Then you have 9 levels on one side and 10 on the other to play around with and do whatever crazy shit you feel like. 
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Rebel7284

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1585
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2010, 03:43:03 AM »
Some more random suggestions.
Crusader 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 7/Contemplative 1 // Factotum 1[free advance]/Dread Necromancer 1/XX 8 action abuser extraodionare

Almost any combination of Ur Priest is crazy.  Ie: Savage Bard 2/Ur Priest 8 is 8th level spells.

I'll think of more ideas later.
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

A_Shadow_of_Life

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2010, 08:57:26 AM »
Factotum cannot be free advanced. It could, but it would only be the Inspiration Points, the rest are class-specific class abilities, thanks though :P
:lovefirefox

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Rebel7284

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1585
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2010, 11:00:27 AM »
Savage Bard 2/Ur Priest 2/Contemplative 1/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 4 // Dominant Ideal Ardent 10
Using alternate spell source/southern magician to count Ur Priest spells as both arcane and divine for Sublime Chord.

Race optimization:
at level 10, you can LA buyoff up to two LA.
Phrenic is amazing, and gives you great stats bumps and gives you more options.
Half Fey is similar, but with a hit to CON (ew) and [ex]Flight
Both of the above are nice on gnomes that take that feat that allows them to use all racial spell likes 3/day.
Both of the above on a lesser Aasimar is sexy stat mods.

If you do want to be in melee, I would actually consider primordial half giant.  The primordial template gives the half giant great mental stats while retaining Powerful Built. only 1 LA!
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Rebel7284

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1585
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2010, 07:40:11 PM »
More random musings, Divine Crusader can be entered as a base class with these rules.

Edit: never mind, weapon focus gets in the way.  Bah!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 07:51:44 PM by Rebel7284 »
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Saxony

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 742
  • My avatar is from the anime "Pani Poni Dash!".
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2010, 03:13:58 AM »
Savage Bard 2/Ur Priest 2/Contemplative 1/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 4 // Dominant Ideal Ardent 10

Ur Priest can only be entered at 6th level because it requires 8 ranks in Knowledge (Religion). That build is thus illegal.
If I say something about real world physics, and someone disagrees, assume I am right 90% of the time. This number goes up to 100% if I am late night posting - trust me, my star dust sibs.

Cyrocloud

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
    • Email
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2010, 11:01:56 AM »
Savage Bard 2/Ur Priest 2/Contemplative 1/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 4 // Dominant Ideal Ardent 10

Ur Priest can only be entered at 6th level because it requires 8 ranks in Knowledge (Religion). That build is thus illegal.


In addition, all skill requirements are reduced by 3, and you may ignore one set of requirements (Feats, Spellcasting level, Caster Level, Skills, etc.)


A_Shadow_of_Life

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Tank / Healer Help.
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2010, 02:09:16 AM »
Savage Bard 2/Ur Priest 2/Contemplative 1/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 4 // Dominant Ideal Ardent 10

Ur Priest can only be entered at 6th level because it requires 8 ranks in Knowledge (Religion). That build is thus illegal.

Insert Foot into Mouth, thanks!  :lmao

Thanks all for your suggestions ;)
:lovefirefox

[spoiler][/spoiler]