Author Topic: Omni spellcaster  (Read 7918 times)

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MizarNX

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Omni spellcaster
« on: June 22, 2010, 01:20:52 PM »
Hi everybody, I'm a long time lurker and this is my first opened topic.

I was reading the Rainbow Servant handbook and i came out with a question: is it possible to create a character capable of casting and manifesting every spell (arcane and divine) and psionic power? And, if so, how would it be?

Manuals: all 3.x, max lvl 20. No gestalt, too easy :p

Thanks for the answers!

MizarNX

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2010, 01:27:10 PM »
Click on this link. Ctrl+F for "Convert Spell to Power". Merry Christmas.
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2010, 01:28:52 PM »
I would start by looking up the triple and quadrupole threat threads. I think they got migrated here if not they would be on the old 339 boards.
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altpersona

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2010, 01:38:42 PM »
shapechange?
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Prime32

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2010, 01:57:38 PM »
Archivist can learn any spell. Erudite can learn any power. Spell-to-power erudite can learn anything.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

juton

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2010, 02:14:15 PM »
As a word of warning, Erudites can be a bit slow to get started at lower levels, but when they do it's awesome. A word of warning, while you'll want to pick up a lot of spells, don't neglect psionic powers as some powers are much more versatile then spells.

SorO_Lost

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2010, 02:22:15 PM »
Erudite 20
Gets 11 unique powers per level chosen per day when you feel like casting them.
(ie screw preping orb of force, mark is as one of your 11 4th level uniques after you cast it)

You get every 8th level spell & power known. With some XP (or gold) costs you can further learn every 9th level power too by using Psychic Chirurgery. I forgot what the trick was to learn 9th level spells outside of yet more Dragon abuse (knowstone + Psychic Chirurgery to Fissioned self).

Finally, you have the normal psionic abuse. Not only do you net things like Time Stop & Schism but theres dozens of infinite pp loops, on top of simulacrum/ice_assassin/body_outside_a_body clone fusion abuse on top of things like the TO arcane genesis and nap for 0.6 seconds in the material world abuse.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Azrael

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2010, 03:15:11 PM »
Erudite 20
Gets 11 unique powers per level chosen per day when you feel like casting them.
(ie screw preping orb of force, mark is as one of your 11 4th level uniques after you cast it)

You get every 8th level spell & power known. With some XP (or gold) costs you can further learn every 9th level power too by using Psychic Chirurgery. I forgot what the trick was to learn 9th level spells outside of yet more Dragon abuse (knowstone + Psychic Chirurgery to Fissioned self).

Finally, you have the normal psionic abuse. Not only do you net things like Time Stop & Schism but theres dozens of infinite pp loops, on top of simulacrum/ice_assassin/body_outside_a_body clone fusion abuse on top of things like the TO arcane genesis and nap for 0.6 seconds in the material world abuse.

How do you get any infinite pp loops with an Erudite? They can only cast 11 unique powers a day (at 20). Since all infinite pp loops rely on bestow power, being able to manifest it only 11 times a day eliminates pp recharge capabilities; one of the main reasons I typically choose psions over StP Erudites.

snakeman830

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2010, 03:17:29 PM »
Bestow Power is one power.  It's unique powers per level per day, not unique manifestations.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

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Azrael

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2010, 03:23:38 PM »
Then whats the case with the non-StP Erudites, when everything they know is a psionic power, and thus a manifestation.

The way I read it, any power (or spell in the StP case) they know is a "unique power." If that isn't the case then what constitutes a unique power if you are not a StP Erudite? Hell, whats the point in being a psion at all if you are not limited in your manifestations...that's supposed to be the major drawback of the Erudite.

snakeman830

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2010, 03:48:28 PM »
Who knows?  The Eurudite is so terribly written that all we can do is guess.  It looks to me like the "unique powers per level per day" means, for example, you are limited to only 11 different powers of any given level each day (at 20th).  Once you've manifested 11 different second-level powers, you can't manifest any other 2nd level powers untilthe next day (but you can remanifest the ones you already have used).
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2010, 04:52:54 PM »
Dragonwrought Kobold  (child of eberron archetype)
Beguiler 3/Rainbow Servant 10/ Prestige Pally 4
Feats:
level 1: Dragonwrought, Heighten Spell, Versatile Spellcaster
level 3: sanctum spell
level 18: sword of the arcane order

That gets you all beguiler, paladin, cleric, wizard, and druid spells.  You have three levels left to play with.

Alternatively

Kobold beguiler 1/rainbow servant 10/Mindbender1/Prestige Pally4/Prestige Ranger2/Divine Oracle 1/Prestige Bard 2/
with the child of eberron sovereign archetype
For beguiler/wizard/cleric/druid/paladin/ranger/bard + domain spells.
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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2010, 08:24:59 PM »
hmm ... how about:
Beguiler 3/Rainbow Servant 10/ Prestige Pally 4 / Ardent 3 ... assuming a 14+ CL.
9 Ranks in Psicraft
Practiced Manifester feat
Spell Focus feat(s)
Psiotheurgist feat(s) from Dr#349
critical power is Psychic Reformation to cycle through the various Mantles.

PM and Psioth feats seem redundant, but PM keeps PsyRef around.
Psioth feat(s) + PsyRef can get every Psi power up to 8s, and up to ~20 Psi 9s.
The 9s depend on the Mantle and DM approval ; something quite less than dm fiat.
Powerstones keep them all around, with the Psicraft ranks.

Mushroom

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2010, 09:39:51 PM »
Psionic Artificer

SorO_Lost

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2010, 10:57:08 PM »
How do you get any infinite pp loops with an Erudite? They can only cast 11 unique powers a day (at 20). Since all infinite pp loops rely on bestow power, being able to manifest it only 11 times a day eliminates pp recharge capabilities; one of the main reasons I typically choose psions over StP Erudites.
They don't rely on Bestow Power only, it's just offered as a free and online source thus the most common answer. And it works.

Bestow Power is one power.  It's unique powers per level per day, not unique manifestations.
Is 100% correct.

Quote
Unique Powers per Day: An erudite manifests psionic powers, paying for each manifestation with an expenditure of power points. Unlike a psion, an erudite is limited to manifesting a certain number of unique psionic powers of each level per day from the repertoire of powers he knows, according to his class level. Thus, a 1st level erudite can manifest one unique power per day? however, the total number of powers he can manifest per day is limited only by his daily power points (that is, the erudite could manifest the unique power as many times per day as he has power points to pay for it). An erudite simply knows his powers? they are part of his repertoire. He does not need to prepare them, though he must get a good night's sleep to regain all spent power points the next day.
Yeah, it's kinda like that.

Hell, whats the point in being a psion at all if you are not limited in your manifestations...that's supposed to be the major drawback of the Erudite.
No one said the pison was better or that the Erudite wasn't underpowered.

Heck, look at the play as suggestion at the bottom.
Quote
Unlike a psion, an erudite is not limited by the number of powers he can know. This is an advantage that an erudite should maximize early and often, looking as hard as possible for new powers to add to his repertoire. An erudite shouldn't wait for opportunities to discover new powers to fall into his lap. Instead, he should actively seek them by making deals with other psionic characters, purchasing rare power stones and so on in pursuit of expanding the sphere of his psionic mastery.
You're told to abuse it's learning abilities just in case you missed it.

Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2010, 01:14:56 AM »
Ten levels of Master of the Secret sound (dragon 297) lets you cast any 9th level or lower spell as a full round action and as a SLA.

Combine with mistling fey to turn it into a living spell.

Most difficult part for qualifying is the "must be able to cast fifth level spells, must know at least five sonic/mind dependent" - if you can get that, you can qualify at fifth level.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 01:17:10 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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Dragonamedrake

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2010, 01:56:35 AM »
Planar Shepard and Shavarath as your chosen plane. That should net you almost every spell in the game.

You get every Devil/Demon and Angle... not to mention every creature that can have the celestial or infernal template added to it. I believe that even nets you most of the psionic powers and every divine and arcane spell available not to mention all the extra goodies that go along with all those forms.

O and Batman was already mentioned. I really like that build too because it requires zero leg work. As soon as you gain the spell list you get access to all the spells... no research, no xp, and no gold cost involved. Really its a beutiful build.

MizarNX

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2010, 07:09:44 AM »
Wow, thank you guys for the answers!  :clap
Now it's time to study all the infos provided!

OblivionSmurf83

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2010, 07:18:53 AM »
Planar Shepard and Shavarath as your chosen plane. That should net you almost every spell in the game.

You get every Devil/Demon and Angle... not to mention every creature that can have the celestial or infernal template added to it. I believe that even nets you most of the psionic powers and every divine and arcane spell available not to mention all the extra goodies that go along with all those forms.

O and Batman was already mentioned. I really like that build too because it requires zero leg work. As soon as you gain the spell list you get access to all the spells... no research, no xp, and no gold cost involved. Really its a beutiful build.

My impression was that plane gave a discrete list of Angels, Devils and Demons, not every type. Contrast with something like Syrania, which has Angel(all), or Thelanis with Eladrin(all).

Incidentally, Eladrin are absolutely awesome for spell-like abilities.

Azrael

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Re: Omni spellcaster
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2010, 05:27:08 PM »
Who knows?  The Eurudite is so terribly written that all we can do is guess.  It looks to me like the "unique powers per level per day" means, for example, you are limited to only 11 different powers of any given level each day (at 20th).  Once you've manifested 11 different second-level powers, you can't manifest any other 2nd level powers untilthe next day (but you can remanifest the ones you already have used).

I like this explanation better, I had not thought of it this way. It would be the proper way to limit the class from just using all the powers he knows.

The argument against it is as follows...

The Psion is incapable (other than learning lower level powers in-place of higher level ones; which would be disadvantageous if done more than a few times) of knowing 11 powers per level. Therefore, allowing the Erudite to manifest 11 powers of each level, in addition to having access to theoretically every power in the book makes the Psion irrefutably weaker than the Erudite. The only (small) advantage a straight Psion would have is knowing a specific 9th level discipline power. Thus, it is more likely that 11 unique powers per day refers to only being able to manifest each power the Erudite knows 11 times each day. Thus, if the (20th level) Erudite has manifested crystal shard 11 times that day, he can no longer manifest that power. But can manifest each other power he knows (assuming he has the power points to do so) a total of 11 times each day.

Although I would very much like for this not to be the case, I believe any intelligent DM would choose to interpret it this way.

Any thoughts?