Author Topic: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build  (Read 26108 times)

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carnivore

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2010, 04:17:20 PM »
since neither Artificer nor Factotum need to be 20th lvl to be effective ..... i would say this is pretty nice:

Artificer 16/ Crusader 2/ Warblade 2// Factotum 16/ Swordsage 2/ Master of Nine 2

all the major Artificer goodies + factutum goodies... and LOTS of Martial Manuvers on top of it all ..... and BAB +16

 :D

awaken DM golem

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2010, 07:46:20 PM »
Oh yeah, building back in more non-caster goodies, can help in a firefight.
Edit - Monk 2 with Tashalatora feat and Psi class levels; not that monk does much at tier 1 gestalt ...  :rollseyes

Depending on the trickery allowed ...
Cleric with any Miracle early set-up
Druid with extra Turning attempts, to do the Cleric Miracle trick on Druid.
Ardent with Psiotheurgist X feats or Ph00's Bloodline version, to get that early high level spells.
Just needs High Arcane casting.

Quad 9s should be doable, and have room for extra stuff.
Maybe the target should be level 19, instead of 20, to get some exp burn goodies.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 08:36:53 PM by awaken DM golem »

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2010, 05:57:02 AM »
"Psionic" Artificer deserves a mention.
No one has taken an extended look at it.
Psi X / Magic interactions suck.
Psi Recharge available at level 1, more a problem of recharge set-ups, than how Psi Arty does it better.
Linked Power allows Wand-ificer cheese, but on the cheap ... I mean real cheap.
Dorje is a Wand that can have higher than level 4s on it.
Oh hey, Erudite Spell to Power puts spells into the psionics realm.
Oh hey, Dragon #349 put Divine spells into the psionics realm.

If there is a Tier Zero, Psi Arty deserves it, but again ... it's more a Psi X problem, than the class being anything anyone has looked at or bork't.


what do you mean by a psi X problem, and is there a way to mitigate this with Gestalt?  maybe throw erudite(spell to power), wizard or archivist on the other side?
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awaken DM golem

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2010, 08:35:15 PM »
"psi X"
was a term on the old psi board, to describe the annoying "psi" version of an Arcane or Divine or Non-caster,
that was otherwise the exact same !!
I mean why bother with the effort.
So it's really just grumpiness, with nothing to mitigate.

Way after I posted that quote,
I learned that regular Arty can get something that does
exactly what Linked Power does for Psi Arty.
I forget what it's called, but it's on PLZ's item discount guide.
That's psi-X for you, and it means that the Psi Arty isn't quite what I thought it was.

Anyway Psi Arty gets every psi power by level 15 (and can use them sooner).
You got 25 other levels to work with it.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 08:37:33 PM by awaken DM golem »

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2010, 09:21:30 AM »
ahh thanks awaken DM golem, and here i thought i was missing out on some misterious power of the psionic artificer.....
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2010, 02:32:09 PM »
That said, by the point you're combining Tier 1 classes in gestalt, it's really a moot point who has a longer dick to rape the game with.

+1

Focused Illusionist/Shadowcraft Mage/Incantatrix//Erudite (spell to power).

Or

AnythingKellKheraptisBuilt//whatever. ;)

I'm honored  :embarrassed  :D  How about this : one of our trademark SCM's that doesn't use UM, and StP BoB trick Erudite up the other.  Two sources of infinite/every spell and power in the game, with all the action abuse an overpowered Eru can throw around.  If you play magic mantle transparency to the fullest, StP Erudite 10/Incantatrix 10||Ardent 20 with Dominant Ideal in whatever action abuse modified mantle you prefer, and enjoy being Monty/The Terminator with more flexibility, while still being outside the time stream and immune to Pun-pun.
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JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2010, 07:42:02 AM »
That said, by the point you're combining Tier 1 classes in gestalt, it's really a moot point who has a longer dick to rape the game with.

+1

Focused Illusionist/Shadowcraft Mage/Incantatrix//Erudite (spell to power).

Or

AnythingKellKheraptisBuilt//whatever. ;)

I'm honored  :embarrassed  :D  How about this : one of our trademark SCM's that doesn't use UM, and StP BoB trick Erudite up the other.  Two sources of infinite/every spell and power in the game, with all the action abuse an overpowered Eru can throw around.  If you play magic mantle transparency to the fullest, StP Erudite 10/Incantatrix 10||Ardent 20 with Dominant Ideal in whatever action abuse modified mantle you prefer, and enjoy being Monty/The Terminator with more flexibility, while still being outside the time stream and immune to Pun-pun.

how long does it take(what level) for your SCM or warmage batman builds to really get going compared to say, a druid who is a powerhouse on lvl 1?
im thinking    either  Druid//warmage batman or SCM build             or   Druid/Planar Shepherd// Erudite(spell to power)         
i know MAD but wildshape helps
this way you get the duids high power at low levels(animal companion, best summoning) then use the kill buttons from the other side along with wildshape mid levels,    then in high levels your wildshaping/shapechanging into crazy outsiders and casting any spell or power in the game

also   Binder//Batman(warmage)         what do you guys think?    binder worth it for flexibility?   or is this all about actions? so in that case
Factotum//Erudite(spell to power)
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Wubs

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2010, 11:53:26 AM »
Btw, if you want actions without seeming too overpowered, you may want to consider Factotum gestalt with Psion- Kineticist.

Reason is, 2 powers, solicit psicrystal and control body, its not as crazy as divine power, but getting Int to AC/Dmg/atk, then having your psicrystal control you, and then either ranged attacking or meleeing for fun is great without being overly powered...  You can then add in factotum goodies for double int to the above.

Bastian

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2010, 01:28:03 PM »
"psi X"
was a term on the old psi board, to describe the annoying "psi" version of an Arcane or Divine or Non-caster,
that was otherwise the exact same !!
I mean why bother with the effort.
So it's really just grumpiness, with nothing to mitigate.

Way after I posted that quote,
I learned that regular Arty can get something that does
exactly what Linked Power does for Psi Arty.
I forget what it's called, but it's on PLZ's item discount guide.
That's psi-X for you, and it means that the Psi Arty isn't quite what I thought it was.

Anyway Psi Arty gets every psi power by level 15 (and can use them sooner).
You got 25 other levels to work with it.
The one you are thinking of is this:
Unbound Scroll, prc (Dra)Scrolls100% minus 5% per level
This, of course, can be furthered by Legacy Champion and any class like it. Also "PLZ's item discount guide" :banghead  he helped me move it into its current form, expanded it a little, and did some editing but it is certainly not his guide (see the two links in my sig if you have any doubt). It is currently our guide together.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 03:09:30 PM by Bastian »

Absolon

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2010, 02:42:37 PM »
Geez, I've often imagined what having a gestalt game at all was like, let alone trying to combine two Tier 1s into an unstoppable juggernaut of game destroying potential!  I've always liked the idea of an Wizard//Archivist combo, not only because you can know every spell in the game, but you could also fling spells around all day long because your magic is coming from two different resource pools.

A simple Wizard5/Incantatrix10/Archmage3/X2//Archivist would have most the goodies that a DMM-Persist cleric would have plus all the craziness that is arcane magic, all without having to create magic items for them and something not talked about a lot here: adventure stamina.  You don't need to worry about using up all your magic for an adventuring day when you've got Persisted uber buffs from Metamagic Effect and two pools of magic that contain all the spells from the Big Three: Wizard, Cleric and Druid.  That's just my opinion of course.

jojolagger

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2010, 05:43:35 PM »
Psion 20// X 5/ Thrallherd 5/ Meta-mind 10
Sorry, But he would have fused with his level 19 cohort and his level 18 cohort, both of which would be using gestalt rules too.
And would have ML 33. Use kalashtar as the race and have have ML 99 3/day. DC for mindthrust at that level is 60+INT.
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JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2010, 09:59:22 AM »
That said, by the point you're combining Tier 1 classes in gestalt, it's really a moot point who has a longer dick to rape the game with.

+1

Focused Illusionist/Shadowcraft Mage/Incantatrix//Erudite (spell to power).

Or

AnythingKellKheraptisBuilt//whatever. ;)

I'm honored  :embarrassed  :D  How about this : one of our trademark SCM's that doesn't use UM, and StP BoB trick Erudite up the other.  Two sources of infinite/every spell and power in the game, with all the action abuse an overpowered Eru can throw around.  If you play magic mantle transparency to the fullest, StP Erudite 10/Incantatrix 10||Ardent 20 with Dominant Ideal in whatever action abuse modified mantle you prefer, and enjoy being Monty/The Terminator with more flexibility, while still being outside the time stream and immune to Pun-pun.
nice Kell, StP Erudite 10/Incantatrix 10||Ardent 20 looks to be deceptively overpowered
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 06:38:44 AM by JohnnyMayHymn »
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Widow

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2010, 06:10:45 PM »
Hmm, how about some Illithaid Savant Love.

Illithaid Savant 15/Factotum 5//
Factotum 1/Telepath 1/Factotum 1/Telepath 1/Factotum 1/Thrallherd 2/Illithaid Savant 10/ Thrallherd 3

Go with the Psioinic Version of the Illithaid and assume the manifester level is HD+1.  Take telepath early on non-HD levels to advance telepathy further.  The key creature to eat is a level 10 Legacy Champion.  Use the Legacy Champion to advance your classes by 8 levels, you can raise and repeat as needed.  Assuming you just eat that class feature twice, you could push Thrallherd to level 10 and Factotum to level 19, and still have room for another class ability.  Plus you have access to thralls for psionic surgery to pick up more powers with your telepath manifesting.  If you have trouble getting ahold of a Legacy Champion, only put 3 levels in Illithaid Savant and push Thrallherd to the point that you can get a decent level Legacy Champion as a Thrall.  If you are not into Factotum 19, you could always through in another PrC and advance that to the max level with the champion eating, or only eat one legacy champion.

The ethergaunt build mentioned earlier is fun.  I like:
ethergaunt 20//Factotum 8/ Eldrich Master 10/Monk 2

Monk can be used to get evasion and Int to AC with the proper feats.  Eldrich Master at level 4 and 8 will grant another spell casters list to your own.  So you can roll with Wizard, cleric, and another of choice off of your ethergaunt racial spell casting.  I similarily like:

Beguiler 20//Bard 1/Cleric 1/ Spell Theif 1/ Marshal 1/ Wizard 1/ Eldrich Master 4/ Dweomer Keeper 1/ Sublime Chord 1/ Dweomer Keeper 9

Add cleric spell casting to your Beguiler and all your other classes because Eldrich Master does not say just one class.  On the other side you have cleric, sorc, and bard spell casting.  Master spell theif feat tricks can also be added in to get a caster level of ... Really high.  Sublime chord caster level of beguiler +10 sets every class at a caster level of 30, X5 puts that at 150.

LargePrime

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Re: Most Powerful Tier 1 Gestalt Build
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2010, 03:23:51 AM »
"psi X"
was a term on the old psi board, to describe the annoying "psi" version of an Arcane or Divine or Non-caster,
that was otherwise the exact same !!
I mean why bother with the effort.
So it's really just grumpiness, with nothing to mitigate.

Way after I posted that quote,
I learned that regular Arty can get something that does
exactly what Linked Power does for Psi Arty.
I forget what it's called, but it's on PLZ's item discount guide.
That's psi-X for you, and it means that the Psi Arty isn't quite what I thought it was.

Anyway Psi Arty gets every psi power by level 15 (and can use them sooner).
You got 25 other levels to work with it.
The one you are thinking of is this:
Unbound Scroll, prc (Dra)Scrolls100% minus 5% per level
This, of course, can be furthered by Legacy Champion and any class like it. Also "PLZ's item discount guide" :banghead  he helped me move it into its current form, expanded it a little, and did some editing but it is certainly not his guide (see the two links in my sig if you have any doubt). It is currently our guide together.
Not to be TOO off topic, but I see nothing that acts like "Linked Power" in any of the mentioned sources.  Please educate me!