Author Topic: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization  (Read 25233 times)

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Endarire

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Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« on: June 08, 2010, 09:46:22 PM »
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Intro
For our purposes, I only care about getting bonuses to accuracy and damage with a Bard's Inspire Courage.  I know there are threads on this, but they lack math.

Math
Classes
BARD LEVELS: +1 @1, +2 @8, +3 @14, +4 @20.  You can usually get by with 1-4 Bard levels and Inspire Courage enhancers.

Dread Pirate Levels (Complete Adventurer 39): +1 and 1/day @3, +2 and 2/day @7. Honorable Dread Pirates effectively get Inspire Courage (usable as a free action) that stacks with Inspire Courage.  Becoming a Dread Pirate is impractical for a typical Bard, though.

Feat For Classes
Song of the White Raven Feat (Tome of Battle 32): Crusader and Warblade Levels stack with Bard levels to determine Inspire Courage's +.  Debatably also grants extra Bardic Music uses per day, if only for Inspire Courage.  Finally, you can activate Inspire Courage as a swift action if in a White Raven stance, but most likely you'll use your swift actions for inspirational boost and a Badge of Valor.

From Smite to Song (Champions of Valor 29): A Paladin may convert a Smite Evil attempt into Inspire Courage with a "Bard" level equal to his Paladin level.  (Assumedly, Bard and Paladin levels stack for the total bonus.)  Perform becomes a Paladin class skill and your DM wonders why your class went up a tier.

Feats
Song of the Heart Feat (Eberron Campaign Setting 60): +1.  Other feats get bonuses too, but those don't matter for our purposes.  Nyah.

Words of Creation Feat (Book of Exalted Deeds 48): DOUBLES your Inspire Courage bonus with any instrument.  Saner interpretations say this is only from levels, but RAW says 'doubles.'  You also take icky subdual damage unless you're immune.  Hello, Warforged Bard!

Words of Creation - The Relevant Bits[spoiler]You can use Words of Creation to enhance bardic music.  A Bard who has the Words of Creation feat can use these powerful words to enhance his bardic music ability as detailed below. When a bard uses the Words of Creation in this manner, it is extremely draining, and the bard takes 1d4 points of nonlethal damage for each rank in Perform required to produce the bardic music effect he is enhancing.  (You suffer this damage on activation, not per round.)  For example, if Jack Black uses the Words of Creation to double an Inspire Courage effect (minimum 3 ranks in Perform), he takes 3d4 points of nonlethal damage.  For Inspire Courage, double the morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear and the morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls (+2 at 1st level, +4 at 8th level, +6 at 14th level, +8 at 20th level).[/spoiler]

*Dragonfire Inspiration Feat (Dragon Magic 17): Doesn't give a straight +, but does d6 fire damage per Inspire Courage +.  If you have Draconic Heritage: Sonic Dragon, this damage becomes sonic.  Casting the creaking cacophony spell (Spell Compendium 55) on your foes gives them sonic vulnerability (+50% sonic damage) with no save.  Dragonfire Inspiration's energy damage stacks with normal Inspire Courage but normally requires another Bardic Music use to activate.

Spells
Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium 124): +1 on next Inspire Courage started within 1 round.

Items
Badge of Valor Item (1400G, Magic Item Compendium 208): +1 on current Inspire Courage.  Activate immediately after the round you use Inspire Courage.

Vest of Legends Item (16,000G, Dungeon Master's Guide II 272): Your Bardic Music is treated as being 5 levels higher.  (There are some other, less important effects.)  Non-Bards debatably gain a Bard5's Bardic Music abilities, including Inspire Courage +1.

Masterwork Horn, Natural (100G/3 lb, Song and Silence 46): +1 on accuracy/damage, -2 on fear saves.  Put a thin cord through this horn and hang it from your neck.  Nothing in the rules states you must use your hands for this.  Hold the horn with enough of your teeth to keep it in your mouth and speak with the rest of your mouth!
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 10:21:19 PM by Endarire »
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Arz

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2010, 12:06:07 PM »
Might want to change the formatting to: Song of the White Raven Feat (Tome of Battle 32): Crusader and Warblade Levels stack ...

Mythic Exemplar(Sir) and Virtuoso levels also stack with bard for IC.

If you are promoting bard dipping the 4th level does little outside of rounding out IC levels. Yes it gets you 2nd level spells but that has no bearing on IC optimization.

Good stuff!

Phoenix00

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2010, 01:01:11 PM »
While it is dragon Heartfire Fanner (Dragon 314 p23) gives you 5th level bardic music abilities if you lack bardic music, or it stacks with bard levels if you have bardic music.  It is also full casting and gives you new bardic music (granting feats temporary for free), one overlooked part is that on its 3rd level ability also gives you +2 attack and +2 AC whenever you do inspire courage.

Requires Negotiator feat, Skill Focus Perform
1st level spells
Diplomacy 10 ranks, Perform 10 ranks
and the ability to join a special organization (DM must allow)

Zombieboots

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2010, 03:49:54 PM »
From Smite to Song - Champions of Valor - Give Paladin Bard Music based on your paladin levels.
Harmonious Knight Sub levels - Champions of Valor (Web) - Gives Inspire Courage +1 only.
Ah! Maddness. Thank you.[spoiler][/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2010, 03:52:18 PM »
From Smite to Song - Champions of Valor - Give Paladin Bard Music based on your paladin levels.
Damn... that might be nice on my cleric/crusader/prestige paladin... I originally wanted to throw a bard level in there for Song of the White Raven, but found it too difficult to fit in. I guess I don't actually need one, now. :D
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2010, 04:00:06 PM »
From Smite to Song - Champions of Valor - Give Paladin Bard Music based on your paladin levels.
Damn... that might be nice on my cleric/crusader/prestige paladin... I originally wanted to throw a bard level in there for Song of the White Raven, but found it too difficult to fit in. I guess I don't actually need one, now. :D
Assuming you're talking about Kalal, let's hope that game picks up in pace sometime soon :D
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2010, 04:06:35 PM »
From Smite to Song - Champions of Valor - Give Paladin Bard Music based on your paladin levels.
Damn... that might be nice on my cleric/crusader/prestige paladin... I originally wanted to throw a bard level in there for Song of the White Raven, but found it too difficult to fit in. I guess I don't actually need one, now. :D
Assuming you're talking about Kalal, let's hope that game picks up in pace sometime soon :D
Yeah, I was talking about Kalal. I don't actually think I'll take the feat, though, as I don't have anything I'd be willing to get rid of for it. And without the feat, I don't think I'd want to spend a standard action turning on Inspire Courage, so... I think I'm going to have to pass. I've got about as much crammed into that character as I can already without really gimping him.  :lol

Yeah, I hope that game picks up also. I've been ready to go for a while. Picking new gear takes a while if you don't already have a list of things you know you want to buy, and I've noticed it tends to bog down PbP games, which struggle not to die from sluggishness anyway.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2010, 04:25:47 PM »
I'll send a PM to the others either tonight or tomorrow. Let's hope that helps :)
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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Prime32

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2010, 04:44:30 PM »
Isn't there an ACF which trades detect evil for Inspire Courage?
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2010, 04:56:30 PM »
Isn't there an ACF which trades detect evil for Inspire Courage?
That would be the Harmonious Knight sub levels mentioned above.
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Phoenix00

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2010, 03:06:28 AM »
unique spells to your Beguiler Spell List.  Note spells that share other classes are not added.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 03:10:50 AM by Phoenix00 »

Ed-Zero

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2010, 01:36:34 PM »
Here's a spell it looks like was passed over..

Harmony - Ghostwalk/Magic of Faerun/Players Guide to Faerun - +4 morale bonus to fear and charm saves and +2 morale bonus to attack and damage. Lasts as long as inspire courage is up.

Also, what are the ways that these bonuses are added up? Is everything added together before words of creation is applied or after? My guess is before and we'll look at why I'm saying that.

Before: (I'm using Pathfinder Bard for this)
17th level Bard - +4
Song of the Heart - +1
Inspirational Boost - +1
Badge of Valor - +1
Vest of Legends - +1 (Essentially)
Masterwork Drum - +1
Harmony - +2
Heartfire Fanner - +2 [Also, not really counting this as it only adds to attack]
Prestige Bard - +1 (I'll be cheesy and have the Bard take this, why not.. it's another +1)
Words of Creation - x2 on the +4 for +8 / +2 for PrC Bard possibly (It depends on how this works with the PrC Bard, does it double that too? If not, ignore this +2)
Total: 8+8+2(maybe)= +16(+18)

After:
17th level Bard - +4
Song of the Heart - +1
Inspirational Boost - +1
Badge of Valor - +1
Vest of Legends - +1 (Essentially)
Masterwork Drum - +1
Harmony - +2
Heartfire Fanner - +2 [Also, not really counting this as it only adds to attack]
Prestige Bard - +1
Words of Creation - x2 on +12 for +24 (+2 for possible doubling of PrC Bard)
Total: +24 (+26)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 02:00:57 PM by Ed-Zero »

fuinjutsu

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2010, 07:01:30 PM »
Here's a spell it looks like was passed over..

Harmony - Ghostwalk/Magic of Faerun/Players Guide to Faerun - +4 morale bonus to fear and charm saves and +2 morale bonus to attack and damage. Lasts as long as inspire courage is up.

Also, what are the ways that these bonuses are added up? Is everything added together before words of creation is applied or after? My guess is before and we'll look at why I'm saying that.

Before: (I'm using Pathfinder Bard for this)
17th level Bard - +4
Song of the Heart - +1
Inspirational Boost - +1
Badge of Valor - +1
Vest of Legends - +1 (Essentially)
Masterwork Drum - +1
Harmony - +2
Heartfire Fanner - +2 [Also, not really counting this as it only adds to attack]
Prestige Bard - +1 (I'll be cheesy and have the Bard take this, why not.. it's another +1)
Words of Creation - x2 on the +4 for +8 / +2 for PrC Bard possibly (It depends on how this works with the PrC Bard, does it double that too? If not, ignore this +2)
Total: 8+8+2(maybe)= +16(+18)

After:
17th level Bard - +4
Song of the Heart - +1
Inspirational Boost - +1
Badge of Valor - +1
Vest of Legends - +1 (Essentially)
Masterwork Drum - +1
Harmony - +2
Heartfire Fanner - +2 [Also, not really counting this as it only adds to attack]
Prestige Bard - +1
Words of Creation - x2 on +12 for +24 (+2 for possible doubling of PrC Bard)
Total: +24 (+26)

The general consensus is that for sake of avoiding insanity only the bonus from bard levels is doubled.  So if you are a 20th level bard with items (Mwk Lute, Vest of Legends) that make you effectively a 26th level bard, you have a base IC of 5 doubled to 10 with WoC before adding on anything else.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

skydragonknight

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2010, 08:30:25 PM »
I'd just like to note that the Dragonfire Inspiration effect is based on the attack bonus granted by inspire courage, NOT the damage bonus. So the Heartfire Fanner thing might make a difference. Would have to check both texts to be certain.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Lobo6717

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2010, 10:02:59 AM »
While it is dragon Heartfire Fanner (Dragon 314 p23) gives you 5th level bardic music abilities if you lack bardic music, or it stacks with bard levels if you have bardic music.  It is also full casting and gives you new bardic music (granting feats temporary for free), one overlooked part is that on its 3rd level ability also gives you +2 attack and +2 AC whenever you do inspire courage.

Just an observation as I was just reading through the Heartfire Fanner.  That ability (Bolster Courage) only affects one ally, and the very last sentence of the description says "The heartfire fanner cannot target himself with bolster courage"

Phoenix00

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2010, 12:22:54 PM »
Masterwork Drum (100G/3 lb, Complete Adventurer 124): +1 on accuracy/damage, -1 on fear saves.  Nothing in the rules states you must use your hands for this.  Make them elbow, ankle, or foot drums to keep your limbs free for more important things, like casting and drunken revelry!
You made an error here.  This drum gives +1 to damage and -1 to fear saves and charm saves.  It does not affect accuracy or your attack value.

Ed-Zero

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2010, 02:54:29 PM »
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 03:11:02 PM by Ed-Zero »

skydragonknight

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2010, 06:23:46 PM »
And just to reiterate, Dragonfire users need to aim for the instruments that grant attack bonus, since that's what Dragonfire Inspiration is solely based on.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Endarire

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2010, 07:23:11 PM »
Where are these instruments found?

I also added advice on the Natural Horn ("Horn, Natural").
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 07:25:37 PM by Endarire »
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Solo

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Re: Breaking Down Inspire Courage Optimization
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2010, 07:25:46 PM »
Complete Adventurer, iirc.

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