Author Topic: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker  (Read 6925 times)

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Shadowhunter

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2010, 10:02:31 PM »
Consider 2 levels of Swordsage.
Taken late enough to give you Initator Level 3, swordsage grants you Assassin's stance for +2d6 of sneak.
It's 1 point of BAB down, more skills, more tricks.
I'm not overly impressed with the Tiger Claw maneuvers personally, not for this gig.
Sudden Leap is always nice though, jump as a swift action helps full attacks. Would require another TC maneuver, which would probably be Wolf Fang Strike.
Distracting Ember, Flashing Sun and Cloak of Deception are very welcome as far as I'm concerned.
Shadow Jaunt is nice as far as teleportation goes.
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[/quote]
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Cuindless

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2010, 10:33:41 PM »
I'm away from books right now, but couldn't I get Assassin's Stance with the Martial Stance feat?

Shadowhunter

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2010, 10:39:29 PM »
That you could, though you'd need Martial Study first to qualify.
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

Cuindless

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2010, 11:43:34 PM »
Good point. What's Martial Study strike would you recommend for this build that will allow me to qualify for Assassin's Stance?

Havok4

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2010, 11:47:13 PM »
Shadow Jaunt is always good, as is cloak of deception.

Cuindless

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2010, 08:52:54 AM »
So the final build is this:

CN Human
S15 D17 C11 I15 W6 Ch14 starting (stats randomly generated using the standard rolling mechanism)
S16 D20 C11 I16 W6 Ch14 modified.

1 Rogue, TWF and Craven
2 Rogue
3 Rogue, Martial Study: Cloak of Deception
4 Swashbuckler, +1 Dex
5 Swashbuckler
6 Swashbuckler, Staggering Strike
7 Dread Pirate
8 Dread Pirate, +1 Dex
9 Dread Pirate, Improved TWF
10 Scarlet Corsair, Improved Feint
11 Barbarian (Lion Totem Variant)
12 Fighter (Hit and Run Varian), Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance, Daring Outlaw, +1 Int
13 Scarlet Corsair
14 Scarlet Corsair
15 Swashbuckler, Greater TWF
16 Swashbuckler, +1 Str
17 Swashbuckler
18 Swashbuckler, Improved Initiative
19 Swashbuckler
20 Nighsong Enforcer, +1 Dex

If my calculations are correct then:

At 12th Level = 5 attacks, +11 BAB, 6d6 SA, +9 dmg.
At 20th Level = 8 attacks, +19 BAB, 11d6 SA, +11 dmg.

How does it look? Is it legal and within the rules? Is it practically optimized for what I want to play? Any further suggestions?

Shadowhunter

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2010, 01:07:16 PM »
You have to switch places with Martial Study and Staggering Strike, since at lvl 4 you only have an Initator Level of 2.
You need IL 3+ to qualify for 2nd level maneuvers.

As far as other suggestions go:

Get yourself a parrot ;)
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

Binder? You're Welcome

Zceryll makes Binders go from tier 3 to tier 2.
Cagemarrow is a Genius

Before giving the advice that build X would be better of with Fist of the Forest, take a long, good look at Primal Living. Twice.

RobbyPants

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2010, 01:19:13 PM »
I'm away from books right now, but couldn't I get Assassin's Stance with the Martial Stance feat?
Do remember that Assassin's stance is 3rd level, which takes an initiator level of 5.  So you'll have to wait until 10th level to qualify if you don't have any sword sage levels before that point.

For example XXX 8/SS 1 would do it, and so would XXX 6/SS 2 (if you want +Wis to AC).
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2010, 01:22:29 PM »
You have to switch places with Martial Study and Staggering Strike, since at lvl 4 you only have an Initator Level of 2.
You need IL 3+ to qualify for 2nd level maneuvers.

As far as other suggestions go:

Get yourself a parrot ;)
Staggering Strike requires BAB +4.

I'm away from books right now, but couldn't I get Assassin's Stance with the Martial Stance feat?
Do remember that Assassin's stance is 3rd level, which takes an initiator level of 5.  So you'll have to wait until 10th level to qualify if you don't have any sword sage levels before that point.

For example XXX 8/SS 1 would do it, and so would XXX 6/SS 2 (if you want +Wis to AC).
He'd still have to burn a feat on it with the first one, since the stance you pick at 1st level has to be a 1st level stance. X6/SS2 is definitely the way to go, anyway.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 01:24:18 PM by PhaedrusXY »
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S_Jerusalem

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2010, 09:11:55 PM »
Also, look into training your group in the Teamwork Benefit: Superior Flank (Heroes of Battle 120). You will easily be able to be the leader and all of your teammates should have BAB+3. It makes any enemies flanked by two or more of your team count as flanked for everyone.

I love to ToB build. You definitely want Staggering Strike for TWFing, it is just tops. Since you are allowed to take Lion Totem Barb, there is no reason for me to go on a tangent about Travel Devotion for more attacks.

Oh, since you will want to Pounce as much as possible, there is another Teamwork Bene that my groups often use: Crowded Charge, which allows you to charge through anyone that is a member of the team. Very helpful for setting up pounces. Can't remember which book that one is in, though.

dantheman

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2010, 03:12:46 PM »
Doesn't Dread Pirate require Quick Draw and Weapon Finesse?

Cuindless

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Re: Optimizing a Pirate TWF Sneak Attacker
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2010, 05:36:10 PM »
Hmm... very good points across the board. Thank you to everyone so far.

As dantheman points out, Quick Draw is a prerequisite for Dread Pirate (egads, such a useless feat...), so I'll have to put that in the build, probably as the level 3 feat since I won't be able to take Martial Study before level 10 anyway. Luckily I get Weapon Finesse from Swashbuckler.

The problem is that now I'll have to squeeze another feat in there somewhere or drop a feat, like Improved Initiative, which would in turn mean dropping Nightsong Enforcer and the 1d6 SA that entails. It's not a serious loss, especially since it's made up for by the 2d6 from Assassin's Stance. I definitely don't want to drop Lion Totem Barbarian or HaR Fighter, though.

Fitting a couple levels of Swordsage would allow me to take Cloak of Deception and Assassin's Stance without burning feats, but it would eat into the Swashbuckler and, thereby, cost me another 1d6 SA. On the other hand it would allow me to take that level of Nightsong Enforcer AND be offset by the 2d6 SA from Assassin's Stance. Hmm... decisions decisions.

1 Rogue, TWF and Craven
2 Rogue
3 Rogue, Quick Draw
4 Swashbuckler, +1 Dex
5 Swashbuckler
6 Swashbuckler, Staggering Strike
7 Dread Pirate
8 Dread Pirate, +1 Dex
9 Dread Pirate, Improved TWF
10 Scarlet Corsair, Improved Feint
11 Barbarian (Lion Totem Variant)
12 Fighter (Hit and Run Varian), Daring Outlaw, +1 Int
13 Scarlet Corsair
14 Scarlet Corsair
15 Swordsage, Greater TWF
16 Swordsage, +1 Str
17 Swashbuckler
18 Swashbuckler, Improved Initiative
19 Swashbuckler
20 Nighsong Enforcer, +1 Dex

How's that look? I have an open feat at 12th level with this build, if my numbers are correct. It won't be quite the powerhouse at 12th level, but it will get much more powerful between levels 15 and 20. What do you guys think? Are there other choices that would be more optimal?