Author Topic: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?  (Read 9920 times)

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Havok4

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2010, 12:50:59 AM »
Oh, come on.  It's me.
Right telekinesis, why did I not see that earlier.

Solo

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2010, 01:30:40 AM »
Oh, come on.  It's me.
TK is Transmutation.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

McPoyo

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2010, 02:36:53 AM »
Going off the Flesh to X things, Flesh to Salt is a level earlier than Flesh to Ice, so...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Phoenix00

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2010, 03:09:44 AM »
Going off the Flesh to X things, Flesh to Salt is a level earlier than Flesh to Ice, so...
Nope Flesh to Salt and Flesh to Ice are the same level.

Flesh to Ice
Wizard/Sorc 5
page 94 Frostburn

Flesh to Salt
Wizard/Sorc 5, Druid 5
page 116 Sandstorm

Flesh to Stone
Wizard/Sorc 6
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fleshtoStone.htm

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2010, 02:13:57 PM »
Oh, come on.  It's me.
TK is Transmutation.

Which makes perfect sense.

Quote
I'm going to transmute this thing here... into something over there!
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
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weenog

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2010, 02:24:21 PM »
I always figured it as more transforming yourself into a guy that can throw shit with your mind.  But your way's more entertaining. :)
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ninjarabbit

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2010, 03:46:26 PM »
The shadow evocation chain of spells makes evocation easy to ban. Sorry but there just isn't a whole lot that evocation can do that another school can do about as well and more.

Negative Zero

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2010, 05:49:41 PM »
The shadow evocation chain of spells makes evocation easy to ban. Sorry but there just isn't a whole lot that evocation can do that another school can do about as well and more.

Yeah, you enjoy that Forcecage that people can occasionally walk right through. Yeah, Shadow Evocation is great, but it really sucks giving the target another save to reduce the effect of the spell significantly.

McPoyo

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2010, 06:06:58 PM »
The shadow evocation chain of spells makes evocation easy to ban. Sorry but there just isn't a whole lot that evocation can do that another school can do about as well and more.

Yeah, you enjoy that Forcecage that people can occasionally walk right through. Yeah, Shadow Evocation is great, but it really sucks giving the target another save to reduce the effect of the spell significantly.
Miracle is evocation.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2010, 06:34:31 PM »
Mcpoyo: this isn't a SCM we're talking about (which would most likely be an Illisionist), but a Conjurer/Transmuter.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
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[/spoiler]

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McPoyo

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2010, 07:33:27 PM »
I was just pointing out evocation has miracle, which no other school can do as well :P it wasn't terribly on topic.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

ninjarabbit

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2010, 08:08:04 PM »
The shadow evocation chain of spells makes evocation easy to ban. Sorry but there just isn't a whole lot that evocation can do that another school can do about as well and more.

Yeah, you enjoy that Forcecage that people can occasionally walk right through. Yeah, Shadow Evocation is great, but it really sucks giving the target another save to reduce the effect of the spell significantly.

Yeah but on the flip side I don't have to spend 1500 gp everytime I cast my quasi-real forcecage.

Talore

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2010, 05:05:41 AM »
The shadow evocation chain of spells makes evocation easy to ban. Sorry but there just isn't a whole lot that evocation can do that another school can do about as well and more.

Yeah, you enjoy that Forcecage that people can occasionally walk right through. Yeah, Shadow Evocation is great, but it really sucks giving the target another save to reduce the effect of the spell significantly.

Yeah but on the flip side I don't have to spend 1500 gp everytime I cast my quasi-real forcecage.

If you can't afford the occasional 1500gp then you're doing it wrong.

Shooting people is for the glass ganon, and to a lesser extent the big-dumb fighter.

I'd avoid banning evocation if I wanted to take thrallherd, or have some undead legion of doom.
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Solo

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Tonymitsu

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2010, 03:16:48 PM »

Which makes perfect sense.
I don't get it either.

Probably because it's like transmuting your brain from something that can't throw objects with it's mind into something that can.

All the rest of the physical body alteration stuff is transmutation.

Akalsaris

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2010, 04:06:14 PM »
By that logic, fireball is transmutation b/c you transmute your mind into one that can shoot fireballs...

I actually dislike abjuration as a school, since I'm more about offense than defense or dispelling, so I'd keep evocation if I were dropping ench & abjuration.  Sadly, however, most conjurers I make are summoners, and I need magic circle for binds =/

Fluffles

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2010, 04:45:58 PM »
By that logic, fireball is transmutation b/c you transmute your mind into one that can shoot fireballs...

I actually dislike abjuration as a school, since I'm more about offense than defense or dispelling, so I'd keep evocation if I were dropping ench & abjuration.  Sadly, however, most conjurers I make are summoners, and I need magic circle for binds =/

Abjuration can be pretty insane. I mean, Abjurant Champion is beast, even for a non-gish. Luminous Armor makes it even more ridiculous.

Azrael

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2010, 05:42:26 PM »
If you ever plan on fighting other casters Abjuration is necessary...even without fighting casters it seems necessary for your own defense.

fuinjutsu

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2010, 06:24:42 PM »
If you ever plan on fighting other casters Abjuration is necessary...even without fighting casters it seems necessary for your own defense.

Defense?  Abjuration is mostly an offensive school, IMO, what with Anti-Magic Ray, Dispel Magic (and variants thereof), and Maw of Chaos.  Defense is a job for Transmutation and Illusion.  Miss Chance >>> AC at higher levels.

Though Suppressing Field can be a good defense if you use it right...  and Friendly Fire is hilarious, if unoptimal.
Eh, the wizard have more money than them combined, he could in theory just use all his money on a fleet of trained attack mules, but then we aren't playing 3.5 but zergling rushing in Starcraft instead.

Azrael

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Re: As a Conjurer i there any reason you would not ban evocation?
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2010, 12:43:44 AM »
  and Friendly Fire is hilarious, if unoptimal.

You mean that spell that turns all rays (or any other ranged touch attack) back on the caster?

...yeah that's totally suboptimal

But then really, this coming from (and I don't know about you personally) people that advocate getting rid of Necromancy if you are playing a high level wizard. Necromancy, which has one of the best defensive spells in the game.

How about...Anticipate Teleportation, Indomitability, Antimagic Field (if you plan on spell aiming), Starmantle, Ironguard, Mindblank, Effulgent Epuration...to name a few.

And you already mentioned the Dispels, which are sometimes essential for defense as well.

Almost the entire school of Illusion is defeated by a single spell...yeah...and miss chance/AC are virtually irrelevant if you optimize correctly. Transmutation is better for spells like Celerity and Shapechange.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 12:47:04 AM by Azrael »