Author Topic: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!  (Read 8851 times)

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gorfnad

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2010, 08:58:10 PM »
As insane as Fred is, I don't know if I want to go that crazy.

Was considering an Archivist xx/Ur-Priest xx/ X xx? But not sure if that would really be that good. I mean, Archivist already gives me access to all the divine spells anyway. Maybe Archivist/Wizard/Mystic Theurge?
Not exactly broken, but here is a more flavorful Ur-Priest build: Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3. Hellfire + Eldritch Glaive + Divine Power is quite nice especially when you can offset the con damage with the Naberius vestige.

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2010, 11:22:44 PM »
Hrmm ur dm might go for this.

White Dragon Wyrmling 3HD +2LA, cleric 5
looks pretty crappy right? just make sure BOVD is approved b4 u start playing

"Curse" yourself with the Bestow Curse variation from the book of vile darkness pg 28 that will force you to age to the next category.
Do this everyday untill you are a great wyrm = breath weapon, DR20/magic, SR 27, oh yea cast as a 13th level sorcerer. u can always remove curse to deescalate the power level if it becomes a problem

would this work with Arcane Disciple to allow you to add domain spells to your arcane spell list?
Tiamat has a bunch of domains (as listed in the dracononomicon; destruction, dragon, evil, greed, law, trickery, hatred, scalykind, and tyranny)- and could u take sorcerer levels after this and stack them with the dragons casting ability?
if so just buy your cleric a wand of Bestow Curse, have him "curse" you several times since its a one time permanent effect
and take sorcerer 5 instead of cleric 5 then cast as an 18th level sorcerer! 
this should be enough to be the arcane controller

whats the LA for the pseudonatural creature template in the epic level handbook?

alternatively the warlocks 6th level ability, curse of despair.... any one know a way to la buyoff or get this at warlock 5?
or i guess another wyrmling with less la or less HD

im not sure if this all works but if it does, it looks like ur at one of the few tables that u could pull it off
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Saxony

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2010, 03:19:01 AM »
As insane as Fred is, I don't know if I want to go that crazy.

Was considering an Archivist xx/Ur-Priest xx/ X xx? But not sure if that would really be that good. I mean, Archivist already gives me access to all the divine spells anyway. Maybe Archivist/Wizard/Mystic Theurge?
If you take a level in Ur Priest, you must permanently give up all previously gained Divine Spellcasting. So Archivist will not work.
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Lunaramblings

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2010, 11:51:22 AM »
Missed that bit with the Ur-Priest, misremembered it, thought that was just for Clerics.

Ok, so did some more thinking. My Tibbit Sword Sage would unfortunately be pretty redundant in the current party. So! What about an Archivist X/Wizard X/Mystic Theurge? Seems like it could play pretty nice. Lots of spells, lots of versatility.

What are some opinions on this? Is there a better Arcane/Divine dual progression that I should look at? Archivist seems like the best option due to the size of the spell list and what not, but not sure if there might be a better Theurge that I am missing?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2010, 11:53:58 AM »
Wizard is redundant with Archivist, as the Archivist can already get all the wizard spells on his list with enough digging around. You're better off as a single classed Archivist. I guess if you could get early entry, it might be worth it for the extra spell slots... maybe.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Mixster

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2010, 12:19:59 PM »
Hrmm ur dm might go for this.

White Dragon Wyrmling 3HD +2LA, cleric 5
looks pretty crappy right? just make sure BOVD is approved b4 u start playing

"Curse" yourself with the Bestow Curse variation from the book of vile darkness pg 28 that will force you to age to the next category.
Do this everyday untill you are a great wyrm = breath weapon, DR20/magic, SR 27, oh yea cast as a 13th level sorcerer. u can always remove curse to deescalate the power level if it becomes a problem

would this work with Arcane Disciple to allow you to add domain spells to your arcane spell list?
Tiamat has a bunch of domains (as listed in the dracononomicon; destruction, dragon, evil, greed, law, trickery, hatred, scalykind, and tyranny)- and could u take sorcerer levels after this and stack them with the dragons casting ability?
if so just buy your cleric a wand of Bestow Curse, have him "curse" you several times since its a one time permanent effect
and take sorcerer 5 instead of cleric 5 then cast as an 18th level sorcerer! 
this should be enough to be the arcane controller

whats the LA for the pseudonatural creature template in the epic level handbook?

alternatively the warlocks 6th level ability, curse of despair.... any one know a way to la buyoff or get this at warlock 5?
or i guess another wyrmling with less la or less HD

im not sure if this all works but if it does, it looks like ur at one of the few tables that u could pull it off

Or you could just play a cancer mage and grab diseases that increase your stats. Especially the one increasing your natural armour is quite sick. Each day you get +1 NA, wait 3 months. Your AC is now more than 100, meaning only touch attacks can hit you.

But your DM will smite you with a lightning bolt from the sky.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

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Lunaramblings

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2010, 04:27:36 PM »
Ok. So was trying to do some figuring. Came up with this.

Bamboo Spirit Folk
Archivist3/Wizard3/Arcane Hierophant 4
 Str 14 (+4 Belt of Magnificence= 18)   
Dex 17 (+4 Belt of Magnificence= 21)
Con 16 (+4 Belt of Magnificence= 20)
 Int 18 (+4 Belt of Magnificence= 22 +2 levels= 24)
Wis 18 (+4 Belt of Magnificence= 22)
Cha 14 (+4 Belt of Magnificence= 18)

Alternate Class Features:
Companion in place of Familiar from Unearthed Arcana, Companion counts as 1/2 level.
Fighter Feats in place of Wizard Feats
Debating on Domain Wizard, but can't choose a Domain.

Feats:
1st:
Archivist Feat: Scribe Scroll
3rd:
6th:Natural Bond
Bonus Fighter Feat: Improved Initiative
9th: Obtain Familiar

So, the Arcane Hierophant requires that you give up your familiar upon entrance, but I do not initially have one, so I do not have to give it up, it never says that you can't later attain a new one. So, I have an Animal Companion that is equivalent to a 7th level druid(DM says to round up, even though I believe it is generally that you would round down.) that also gains the benefits of a 7th level familiar, and then I have an additional 7th level Familiar.

I also cast upto 4th level Arcane and Divine spells.

I need suggestions as to feats at the missing levels, as well as some spell suggestions. Also any other type of assistance is appreciated, including an alternate to the Race, I would prefer to play Human or something more interesting, but the Race is needed to get me into the Arcane Hierophant, so if there are any other tricks available, let me know.

I am aware of the easy entry of Druid, but I feel in this case it is sub-par to the Archivist due to Spell selection and the fact that I am never going to get Wild Shape, although, it would be interesting to have 2 companions and a familiar... this may require thinking.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2010, 04:50:05 PM »
Like I said on the other board... that build is strictly inferior to any full caster build (except maybe bard... or a crappily built sorcerer/favored soul/etc).

If you really want to to capitalize on your uber stats, play a gish, pick up a greatsword, and throw down some Wraithstrikes while charging with a maxed out power attack. And you can still throw out a crowd control before the fight if that's more optimal (it often will be).

Starting at 10th level, I'd say go with a "Divine Power" gish. In other words, just play a full caster that persists Divine Power and a bunch of other buffs. You'll be a full caster, and still be able to fight better than the "fighters" in your party.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Lunaramblings

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2010, 05:52:39 PM »
As I pointed out on the other board.

I figure that with the stats that I have, I will have the following
Archivist Spells per Day:
1st: 7 2nd: 6 3rd: 4 4th: 3

Wizard Spells per Day:
1st: 6 2nd: 5 3rd: 4 4th: 2

Total Spells per level:
1st: 13 2nd: 11 3rd: 8 4th: 5

Even being behind, I think that the versatility and sheer number of spells seems to be pretty potent. I am casting a lot of spells, and with good choices they can be quite potent. at 20th level I am casting as 17th/17th still giving me double 9s. I can also afford to shuffle my spells around a bit as we will have a DMM-Persist Cleric as well.

I understand that this is not the most powerful build ever. I am okay with that. But I do think it is an interesting build. And, given the fact that we are not a small group, there are 6 players, I think we will be fine with out me taking it to the extremes of power. Also, this build can be pretty interesting in that I have the stats to wade into combat if need be, so I can be a psuedo-gish as well, especially since I have a Companion and a Familiar that I can also share spells with. I appreciate the Persist idea, but as I said, already have one of those hanging around.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2010, 06:35:21 PM »
You're not starting at level 20, and for the other 9 levels of the game (starting at level 10), you'll be behind at least one level of spells. For several levels, you'll be behind two levels, which is collossaly bad, and I don't think I am exaggerating a bit. 

The number of spells you'll have over a single-classed caster is actually not that large. There was a thread analyzing it once and I remember being quite surprised, as everyone tends to think Mystic Theurges have loads more spells than their single-classed brethren, but that's not actually the case.

So no... in fact not only is it not the best build ever... it is a terrible one. Play it if you want. Just don't have any illusions as to it being optimized, because in my opinion it is far from it. You're basically playing your pet, because that's the only thing you have that is level appropriate.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Lunaramblings

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2010, 11:06:26 PM »
Ok, just noticed that due to BAB I can not qualify Archivist3/Wiz3. So, here is what I guess I will have to go with, pending the early entry shenanigans I am waiting to hear from Phaedrus.

Human
Druid5/Wiz1/Arcane Hierophant4

Alternate Class Features:
Companion in place of Familiar
Fighter Feats in place of Wizard Feats
Still leaning toward a Specialist or a Domain Wizard, but not sure which.

Feats:
H: Precocious Apprentice
1st: Natural Bond [Druid] (I am assuming this would need to be taken for each Companion)
3rd:
Wiz1: Improved Initiative
6th: Natural Bond
9th: Obtain Familiar

So this gives me a Familiar equivilent to a 5th level wizard, an Animal Companion that is equivalent to a 9th level Druid if I take a Second tier animal, or a 10th level Druid if I take the basic, that also gets the benefits of a 5th level Familiar. I then have an additional 6th level Companion, or a 3rd level companion from the alternate list.

With this I cast as a 9th level Druid/5th Level Wizard. I also can wear Dragonhide Breast Plate with out Arcane Spell Failure, and Wild Shape as a 9th Level Druid.

So, opinions?

Lunaramblings

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2010, 12:16:20 AM »
It is evident that I suck at remembering 4 not 3. I keep thinking it is BAB 3 not BAB 4. Ok, so it will actually be:

Druid 6/Wizard1/AH 3

This still gives me my main companion as a Druid 9 (assuming tier 2 pet likely a Fleshraker) but with only 4th level Familiar benefits. My second Companion is as Druid 2 (thinking a second Fleshraker), and then a familiar as a 4th level Wizard.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2010, 01:02:20 AM »
Wait... 2nd companion? And a familiar? I thought you combined your familiar and companion with Arcane Heirophant?

If the DM will let Precocious Apprentice qualify you, that's the easiest "early entry trick", but I see you've already got that down. I think bamboo spirit folk lets you get in with few or no druid levels, IIRC.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Lunaramblings

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2010, 01:06:01 AM »
If you have a familiar yes. I trade out my familiar for a companion. Then later take Obtain Familiar. So I end up with 1 Companion Familiar, 1 Companion, 1 Familiar. Lots of fun shall ensue. Not sure what the actual familiar will be yet though. Suggestions?

JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2010, 11:34:24 AM »
Well put a foot in MY mouth, Mixter, I believe he asked for "Help with a crazy power level game!" I simply presented a way to be a white dragon great wyrm that casts as an 18th level sorcerer EXCUSE me!

He could just go with commoner 10, do the pun pun thing and smite YOU with a lightning bolt from the sky!  :lmao

Wait what does a great wyrm care about a lightning bolt?

Lunaramblings, planar shepherd would let you cast at a higher level(druid only tho), keep the companion, but loose the arcane stuff.  Though the planar shepherd can answer many problems with wildshape, like turn into an angel, demon or devil. .... or a genie or just about anything else..

any one know what the final word was on the using spellcasting abilities of wildshaped outsiders by a planar shepherd? if it works you could do the arcane thing that way, but wait a few levels.
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Can you find the Wumpus? (Hint: start with the spoiler....)
[spoiler] :beathorse [/spoiler]
...........  :joystick

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2010, 11:35:45 AM »
If you have a familiar yes. I trade out my familiar for a companion. Then later take Obtain Familiar. So I end up with 1 Companion Familiar, 1 Companion, 1 Familiar. Lots of fun shall ensue. Not sure what the actual familiar will be yet though. Suggestions?
If you're not upgrading it with Improved Familiar, the raven is probably the best. It shares your skill points and can speak 1 language, so it can activate magic items. This is especially nice if you take Use Magic Device ranks, as you can then give it wands.

The bat is also nice for the blindsense.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Lunaramblings

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2010, 12:53:31 PM »
Was thinking about the hedgehog for +1NA. But the Raven might be good. Can it use wands from the Druid and Wiz list with out UMD as I can? That to me would make sense, but don't know if the rules support it.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2010, 01:37:03 PM »
Was thinking about the hedgehog for +1NA. But the Raven might be good. Can it use wands from the Druid and Wiz list with out UMD as I can? That to me would make sense, but don't know if the rules support it.
No it can't. It shares your skill points, BAB, effective hit dice, and all the other things listed for a familiar, but spell list is not one of them. The UMD DC for activating a wand is only 20, though. So if you stick even a few cross-classed ranks in it and buy the familiar an item granting an enhancement bonus to the check, it should be able to make that quite a bit of the time. Of course, this works better with improved familiars that have higher charisma scores, but that's yet another feat you're sacking.

If you can psychic reformat (or otherwise change) your familiars feat(s), you could also give it Skill Focus: Use Magic Device, and maybe other feats that boost its UMD skill (I think there is a Magical Aptitude skill that gives +2 to UMD and something else, right?).
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Lunaramblings

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2010, 02:17:53 PM »
Considering taking Transmutation Specialist. Is there a different specialty that you would suggest or a Domain(from UA not Clerical unfortunately)?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help with crazy power level game! PLEASE!
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2010, 02:21:45 PM »
Considering taking Transmutation Specialist. Is there a different specialty that you would suggest or a Domain(from UA not Clerical unfortunately)?
You can use the UA domain specialist? I'd do that... Transmutation is a good one, if you like Transmutation. (It is one of the two strongest schools.)
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]