Author Topic: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)  (Read 8381 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Architect

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Wizardry
    • Email
Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« on: April 30, 2010, 05:15:23 AM »
Hey all, I've just pushed out a Suel Arcanamach build, acting as an NPC in my campaign. I've done some looking around and I can't seem to really come to much of a decision over what to do with his feats, as well as many of his spells.

-------------------------------------------
The progression for his build is pretty standard: (substituting ride for tumble the whole way, baby!) The feats I'm unsure about are highlighted in red.
Human
1: Ranger (Mage Hunter alternate class feature): Flaw (Shaky), Wedded to History, Able Learner... iron will (Ick!)
2: Duskblade: -----
3: Duskblade: Knowledge Devotion
4: Duskblade: +1 Charisma
5: Duskblade: -----
6: Duskblade: Practiced Spellcaster
7: Suel Arcanamach: -----
8: Suel Arcanamach: +1 Charisma
9: Suel Arcanamach: Mage Slayer
10: Suel Arcanamach: -----
11: Abjurant Champion: -----
12: Abjurant Champion: +1 Charisma, Arcane Strike
13: Abjurant Champion: -----
14: Abjurant Champion: -----
15: Abjurant Champion: Obtain Familiar (I have no idea where to start with this one!)
16: Spellsword: <-- +1 Charisma (I'm honestly not even sure if this dip is worth it. I'd like to hear the feedback)
17: Ranger: ----- <---Not sure about this dip either
18: Cyran Avenger: Somatic Weaponry
19: Cyran Avenger: -----
20: Cyran Avenger: +1 Charisma

-------------------------------------------

With the build as stands, I'm sitting pretty with +19 base BaB, full SA casting, and level 7 casting in Duskblade, but it's nothing special as far as SA/AC builds go. And I get the feeling that some of the feats are kind of jumbled in there without much creativity. So on that note, I'd like to hear what the CO boards feel could make this build better.

Thanks in advance!
Is that a dog?
Yes.

cru

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 613
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 07:33:11 AM »
Well, perhaps add some more info about what this NPC should be about.
Note that mage slayer decreases your caster level for both duskblade and SA
Practiced spellcaster negates the hit for a single spell casting class.
I am lazy to check how Abjurant Champion capstone is worded, if it works for all arcane caster levels, or for a single class only.

Obtain familiar usually goes with Improved familiar, read here: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7508

Somatic Weaponry usually is not needed unless you want to wield two weapons. Which is usually suboptimal.

Spellsword dip: depends on what armor you plan to wear, I guess.

You could always dip barbarian for pounce.

Perhaps you could profit from Versatile Spellcaster.

gorfnad

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 282
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 08:02:04 AM »
There might be some feat options to consider in the Suel Arcanamach Handbook http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870638/The_Suel_Arcanamach_Handbook
I definitely suggest looking into Versatile Spellcaster feat as well.

Architect

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Wizardry
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2010, 03:12:12 PM »
 :banghead
Versatile Caster was actually in my original planning, but with the book sifting, I forgot about it.

Well, at first I had the idea for a two-weapon-fighting caster, but as it happens, it's a little too consumptive on feats and class choice, when I could use those choices for other things. So instead, I think that a 1-handed weapon/ 2-handed weapon would work best. I want him to stand a semblance of a chance against The Master Thrower build.

So far:
-Versatile Caster
-Imp Familiar
-Nix Somatic Weaponry
-Spellsword is iffy
-Mageslayer unecessary

*Edit, Thanks for the link to the Familiar's Handbook, as well as the link to the SA's handbook (Although, I already have that one open ;) )
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 03:14:59 PM by Architect »
Is that a dog?
Yes.

Architect

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Wizardry
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2010, 04:32:22 PM »
Are there any other flaws that could be of use, by the way?

How about replacements for the second level of Ranger, as well as substitutions for Cyran Avenger?

War Weaver?
Is that a dog?
Yes.

vilenatas

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 05:46:07 PM »
Aiming more gish or caster.  I like pal2/dusk3/abjurant champ1/suel1/abjurant+4/swiftblade9, or if you want to get max suel casting faster look at pal2/dusk3/abjurant1/suel3/abjurant+4/swift6/exotic weapon master1 (ewm is for bastard sword 2x strength after draconic polymorping into some 50 strength beast).  Also look at using otuygh hole for iron will instead of using a feat slot.

Fluffles

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 06:23:01 PM »
You can't change what AbjurChamp progresses, you have to advance the same thing for all 5 levels. If this case, Duskblade.

Architect

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Wizardry
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 06:33:28 PM »
You can't change what AbjurChamp progresses, you have to advance the same thing for all 5 levels. If this case, Duskblade.

Well, the point for Abjurant champion was more to finish out the SA levels. And then the Spellsword would originally give the last needed level of SA needed for max spellcasting level on SA.

*edit: misunderstood the context of that statement.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 06:54:37 PM by Architect »
Is that a dog?
Yes.

vilenatas

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 307
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 06:45:34 PM »
You can't change what AbjurChamp progresses, you have to advance the same thing for all 5 levels. If this case, Duskblade.

No, you get to choose which class to apply the caster level to and which to use martial arcanist on (only gets one, I missed that before), but you can choose at any level what you want to apply the caster level to.  Swiftblade is different as you can only apply caster levels to a class you can cast haste in.

ninjarabbit

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1442
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 07:05:02 PM »
This is a rare case where dragon disciple might be good. After you finish off your SA spell progression you can take DD levels to give yourself more 5th level spell slots, natural attacks, and boosts to your str and natural armor.

duskblade3/hexblade3/SA1/AbjurantChampion5/spellsword1/SA3/dragondisciple4: 18 BAB and CL, -20% ASF

The swiftblade idea is excellent too

Architect

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Wizardry
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 07:23:33 PM »
Off-hand I don't recall much from th DD PrC. It adds to existant spell levels, correct (5/10?) In the case of taking that PrC so late in the progression, it might be that I may no longer need to add Spellcasting levels to SA (with Abjurant Champion/Spellsword). My question would be: Would I still be able to add extra spell slots to SA, even though I am no longer contributing to his class (The reason I ask this is because some PrC's are worded like that)?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 07:27:47 PM by Architect »
Is that a dog?
Yes.

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 07:36:18 PM »
DD doesn't progress spell casting at all it just gives you more spell slots per day. It is kinda weird like that.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Architect

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Wizardry
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 07:42:52 PM »
Well doesn't that beat all. Strange.

*Edit: Now, would you say that with an added 4 strength, on top of buffs as well as an already adequate strength score, power attack would be a nice addition into the fold of feats?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 07:44:27 PM by Architect »
Is that a dog?
Yes.

archangel.arcanis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 07:50:10 PM »
Well doesn't that beat all. Strange.

*Edit: Now, would you say that with an added 4 strength, on top of buffs as well as an already adequate strength score, power attack would be a nice addition into the fold of feats?
Yes it would as it increases your strength as a stat point gained every 4 levels would. It is not a bonus but an actual increase. So the buffs would add to it because that is your new 'original' strength as far as spells are concerned.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Architect

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Wizardry
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 08:21:23 PM »
Well doesn't that beat all. Strange.

*Edit: Now, would you say that with an added 4 strength, on top of buffs as well as an already adequate strength score, power attack would be a nice addition into the fold of feats?
Yes it would as it increases your strength as a stat point gained every 4 levels would. It is not a bonus but an actual increase. So the buffs would add to it because that is your new 'original' strength as far as spells are concerned.

Oh, yes, I understood the mechanics of the class (thanks to the refresher from the link that you threw my way). The question itself was more generally geared toward "Would power attack be a feat to consider should I decide on DD"?
Is that a dog?
Yes.

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2010, 09:49:17 PM »
I forget... can you get Wraithstrike as a Suel Arcanamach?  :flutter
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Fluffles

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2010, 09:52:26 PM »
If it's transmutation (Which I think it is) yes.

ninjarabbit

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1442
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2010, 10:01:30 PM »
Power attack is always a good feat for a melee character. Assuming shield is one of your spells known then there's no excuse not to use a two handed weapon, preferably one with reach.

Your spell list is going to be another big decision, I'd go for the following:

1-shield, silent image, nervesketter, swift expeditous retreat,
2-invisibility, wraithstrike, detect thoughts, resist energy (assuming you didn't take this as a duskblade spell)
3-haste, greater magic weapon, magic circle against evil
4-polymorph, greater mirror image,
5-telekenisis, dismissal (let's you qualify for sacred exorcist if you want divine feats like divine might)

Lots of swift/immediate action spells assuming you take all 5 levels of abjurant champion

Architect

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Wizardry
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2010, 04:39:30 PM »
Thanks for the advice, Ninja!
Is that a dog?
Yes.

ninjarabbit

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1442
    • Email
Re: Suel Arcanamach build tweaking help. :)
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2010, 11:05:28 PM »
One more thing: arcane strike isn't a good feat for SAs since they don't have enough spells per day to really abuse it.  I think a reserve feat like minor shapeshift would work well.