Author Topic: Need help making Cheese caster  (Read 14032 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Rekcuf

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #80 on: April 29, 2010, 10:52:50 AM »
Shadowcraft Mage is the Races of Stone which is not an allowed book.

Rekcuf

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #81 on: April 29, 2010, 11:18:53 AM »
Alright, let's get a critique:


Strongheart Halfling
50 point buy.  Two point from level.

STR 8_
CON 18
DEX 18
INT 20 (24)
WIS 14
CHA 10

Domain Transmutation Wizard 5 / MotAO 3
Feats: 8  Level 1, Racial, 2 flaw, level 3, level 6, level 2 MotAO
Improved Initiative (instead of scroll scribing)
Cooperative Spellcasting
Cloudy Conjuration
Spell Focus (Transmutation)
Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Skill Focus Spellcraft
Extend Spell
Sculpt Spell

Equipment:
Magic items: Rod of extend (lesser), Headband of Intellect (+4), Pearls of power - level 1 (x 5), Rod of silent spell (lesser), Heward's handy haversack, Heward's fortifying bedroll, Amulet of health (+2), Cloak of Resistance (+2), Wand of True Casting

Opinions?  After this, it'll be time to dive into actual spell selection, lol.

Rebel7284

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1585
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #82 on: April 29, 2010, 12:21:46 PM »
I wouldn't bother with extend and sculpt, minor rods are only 3000.
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Rekcuf

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #83 on: April 29, 2010, 12:27:45 PM »
I'm required to have metamagic feats to get into the MotAO, additionally ,all the bonus feats there are metamagic.

Would it be better to get rods and then take Quicken, Empower or Maximize instead?

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #84 on: April 29, 2010, 12:34:54 PM »
I'm required to have metamagic feats to get into the MotAO, additionally ,all the bonus feats there are metamagic.

Would it be better to get rods and then take Quicken, Empower or Maximize instead?
If you take the Metamagic School Focus feat (I forget if it is from an allowed source or not), I'd probably take Quicken. If not, go with what you have. Getting Quicken for free 3x day is better than getting Sculpt 3x day. I think in general there are more low level spells that I'd rather Sculpt and more high level spells that I'd rather Quicken, also.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 12:36:34 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Rekcuf

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #85 on: April 29, 2010, 12:45:46 PM »
Metamagic School Focus is in the Complete Mage, which isn't one of the approved books unfortunately.

DavidWL

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 505
    • Email
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #86 on: April 29, 2010, 01:19:31 PM »
Alright, let's get a critique:
Domain Transmutation Wizard 5 / MotAO 3
Feats: 8  Level 1, Racial, 2 flaw, level 3, level 6, level 2 MotAO
Opinions?  After this, it'll be time to dive into actual spell selection, lol.

This is a "normal good" wizard build.  At level 8 that means great, but not broken / "super cheesy".

For what you want, you need better tricks than that.

Examples:
- pretend to be a horse (UMD) and use those items which give you like + 10 to int via UMD
- pretend to be a nighthag(UMD) and use a heartstone (or hearthstone ... whatever it was called), etc.
- Use metamorophic transfer / supernatural transformation to great and brutal effect
- Be a ruthless thrallherd, throwing thralls away like water.
- Be a diplomancer with ridiculous diplomacy check
- Etc.

If possible, combine multiple.

Best,
David
Some Cool Quotes:  [spoiler]
Quote from: unknown
Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

Quote from: Runestar / skydragonknight
The most powerful character is the one that you actually get to play.

Quote from: Operation Shoestring
I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/spoiler]
DavidWL's Random Build Archive

McPoyo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3783
    • Email
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #87 on: April 29, 2010, 01:22:03 PM »
- pretend to be a horse (UMD) and use those items which give you like + 10 to int via UMD
I had completely forgotten all about that trick, lol.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Rekcuf

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #88 on: April 29, 2010, 01:23:01 PM »
Can someone translate that to english please?

McPoyo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3783
    • Email
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #89 on: April 29, 2010, 01:26:00 PM »
There is an item, a set of horseshoes, iirc, that grants +10 or something similarly silly, an an untyped bonus. You use the Use Magic Device skill to emulate the racial requirement of being a horse, and get a +10 untyped bonus to Int.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Rekcuf

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #90 on: April 29, 2010, 01:27:06 PM »
...

Wow.

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #91 on: April 29, 2010, 02:54:40 PM »
- pretend to be a horse (UMD) and use those items which give you like + 10 to int via UMD
- pretend to be a nighthag(UMD) and use a heartstone (or hearthstone ... whatever it was called), etc.
These both require a DC 30 use magic device check, which is not trivial for a level 7 or 8 wizard. I'm sure there are certainly a ways to cheese it, like UMD a Wand of Guidance of the Avatar, and use that toward the DC 30 UMD check. But burning charges from a 4000+ gp wand isn't cheap either. They are both awesome tricks, but you can get the Etherealness from using Lesser Planar Binding to call a Nightmare. This also gets you Astral Projection... which is insanely broken. In fact, call a Nightmare should be added to the list...
Quote
- Use metamorophic transfer / supernatural transformation to great and brutal effect
If you can get either of these feats on your familiar, it can be even more insane. Psychic Reformation might work for that. Then you can do crazy shit like Polymorph your familiar into a beholder and have it aim its Antimagic eye at your enemy while you fly over his head and bomb him to death with Lesser Orbs of Fire or whatever.
Quote
- Be a ruthless thrallherd, throwing thralls away like water.
Even if you don't use their minions as disposable, they can be ricockulously powerful. Exhibit A.
Quote
- Be a diplomancer with ridiculous diplomacy check
Many DMs will either ignore or house rule this one.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

McPoyo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3783
    • Email
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #92 on: April 29, 2010, 03:00:53 PM »
Quote
- Use metamorophic transfer / supernatural transformation to great and brutal effect
If you can get either of these feats on your familiar, it can be even more insane. Psychic Reformation might work for that. Then you can do crazy shit like Polymorph your familiar into a beholder and have it aim its Antimagic eye at your enemy while you fly over his head and bomb him to death with Lesser Orbs of Fire or whatever.
Isn't there a miniature beholder with fewer eyerays but keeps the antimagic cone you can grab via imp familiar somewhere? FR maybe? I seem to recall something similar to that.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #93 on: April 29, 2010, 03:01:48 PM »
Quote
- Use metamorophic transfer / supernatural transformation to great and brutal effect
If you can get either of these feats on your familiar, it can be even more insane. Psychic Reformation might work for that. Then you can do crazy shit like Polymorph your familiar into a beholder and have it aim its Antimagic eye at your enemy while you fly over his head and bomb him to death with Lesser Orbs of Fire or whatever.
Isn't there a miniature beholder with fewer eyerays but keeps the antimagic cone you can grab via imp familiar somewhere? FR maybe? I seem to recall something similar to that.
Eyeballkin or something silly like that. I didn't think it kept the antimagic cone, though...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

McPoyo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3783
    • Email
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #94 on: April 29, 2010, 03:06:41 PM »
Quote
- Use metamorophic transfer / supernatural transformation to great and brutal effect
If you can get either of these feats on your familiar, it can be even more insane. Psychic Reformation might work for that. Then you can do crazy shit like Polymorph your familiar into a beholder and have it aim its Antimagic eye at your enemy while you fly over his head and bomb him to death with Lesser Orbs of Fire or whatever.
Isn't there a miniature beholder with fewer eyerays but keeps the antimagic cone you can grab via imp familiar somewhere? FR maybe? I seem to recall something similar to that.
Eyeballkin or something silly like that. I didn't think it kept the antimagic cone, though...
I may be remembering it incorrectly.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Rekcuf

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #95 on: April 29, 2010, 03:18:18 PM »
What in gods name do you say to a nightmare to get it to stay with you after Lesser Planar Binding it... that would be lasting?

Anklebite

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
  • I shall play you the song of my people.
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #96 on: April 29, 2010, 03:26:15 PM »
What in gods name do you say to a nightmare to get it to stay with you after Lesser Planar Binding it... that would be lasting?
do you wish to serve me in life, or in death?
I do not suffer from paranoia; I enjoy every second of it.
Pioneer of the Ultimate Magus + Sublime Chord + Ultimate Magus combo

Rekcuf

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #97 on: April 29, 2010, 03:37:01 PM »
At level 8... it would probably just kill my Wizard.  On top of everything else, it would just try to escape every day with an offer like that.

weenog

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1706
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #98 on: April 29, 2010, 03:43:58 PM »
At level 8... it would probably just kill my Wizard.  On top of everything else, it would just try to escape every day with an offer like that.
Then your problem isn't words, your problem is you have nothing to say.  You don't deal with outsiders from a position of weakness, you deal with them when you are damned sure that you can blast them out of existence with a mere thought if they act up.
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
"That sounds like a victory to me."

Rekcuf

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 82
Re: Need help making Cheese caster
« Reply #99 on: April 29, 2010, 03:54:10 PM »
Heh..
Alright, we digress.

Back to the build.  With a focus on buffing/debuffing/manipulating...

I get 0--mage hand; 1st-- expeditious retreat; 2nd-- levitate; 3rd-- haste; 4th-- polymorph; 5th-- baleful polymorph; 6th-- disintegrate; 7th-- reverse gravity; 8th-- iron body; 9th-- shapechange as free spells.

6, 6, 5, 4, 4, 3 spells per day plus the spells above.

What spells do people recommend for regular travels?