Author Topic: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?  (Read 2423 times)

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weenog

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Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« on: April 25, 2010, 05:16:55 PM »
Apologies if I seem overly long-winded here.   I'm trying to be as thorough as possible to start with, to make it easier to give informed advice.

After a slow, grueling year and a half, I have to admit my dragon shaman can't keep up with the initially undersold difficulty level of the game I'm playing anymore.   These last two sessions we've fought a true dragon with custom buffs, and a kraken, and now we're going up againt some weird gargantuan construct made of yuan-ti blood.  :twitch  I'd like to continue providing BSF capability, but have some problem-solving solutions beyond "hit the thing with the other thing, or breathe fire on it;" I think Malconvoker is an ideal solution.  I want some assistance getting my character ready to go, and some advice on how to progress afterward, please.  I expect this character to begin play at level 11 or 12, but 10 is possible depending on how the rest of the current quest goes, so that's the level I'm aiming to be functional by.  I think the party will reach at least level 15, 20 is possible but unlikely, and epic is definitely not happening.

First, some info on what I'm getting into.

potentially relevant house rules
[spoiler]
  • In addition to their normal racial abilities, at 1st level humans may choose to apply a +1 racial bonus to any one ability score, and a -1 racial penalty on any one ability score (this can be doubled up for a net change of zero).  They may also choose to take a +2 racial bonus on any one skill, or a +1 racial bonus on attack or damage rolls with melee or ranged weapon attacks.
  • High Elves get Str -1, Dex +2, Con -2, Int +1, no automatic weapon proficiencies, immunity to magic sleep, +2 bonus on saves vs all mind-affecting effects, low-light vision, +2 balance/jump/listen/search/spot/tumble checks, no automatic searching, favored class = druid.  There are no elf subraces.
  • General polymorph type spells don't exist. Individual form spells may be researched, but only if the form doesn't give the DM a heart attack.  In addition, the spell levels will be inflated to make them less appealing to use. Alter Self is now a level 4 spell. :(
  • PCs may not have cohorts by any means. Replacement for Thaumaturgist Planar Cohort is negotiable.
  • Clerics may only have 1 domain unless more are added by PrC, and do not receive heavy armor proficiency.  Cleric choice of deity is not restricted by race, and domain is not restricted by deity.
  • Wizards must be specialists.
  • Wizards must have familiars present and functional, or suffer an untyped 20% ASF.  The DM is okay with dumping the familiar for an ACF and then replacing it with the Obtain Familiar feat.
  • Sorcerers use spell points.
  • Master Specialist is banned until further notice. (DM noticed how inexpensive this PrC is in the context of forced specialization, especially for a summoner, and forbids it until he decides how to modify the prereqs to something he's more comfortable with.)
  • Anything Op Level 4 or 5 (ROLEplayer/competent/slick/slight cheese/limburger scale) is out.  Level 3  is mostly okay so long as it's not so obscure he can't find and review it himself, but anything we use against him can and will be used against us, including the weaker party members.
  • New characters start off slightly behind the average of the existing ones (generally the middle of the next lowest level if the party just reached their current level, or the beginning of the same level if they've progressed most of the way through it).  A new character may begin with equivalent XP and spend some of it ahead of time if desired.
  • Flaws may be taken, but 2 flaws are required to gain 1 feat.  Flaws are subject to review and will be forbidden if they don't adversely affect the character taking them (no Vulnerable on a karmic striker that wants to be hit, for example).
  • Not so much a house rule, but relevant regardless: this DM loves throwing homebrew monsters at us, and sometimes misjudges how powerful they'll be in a given situation.  Fast, accurate escape or intel-gathering capability is a big plus.
[/spoiler]

the current party
[spoiler]
  • Gnome Illusionist 10; banned schools Evocation and Transmutation (I could kill him for this)
  • Half-Orc Ranger 6/Barbarian 3/Half-Orc Paragon 1 (may also be replaced soon, she's having some of the same issues I am)
  • Kobold Rogue 3/Sorceror 2/Unseen Seer 5
  • Dwarf Cleric 10
  • Dragonborn (human) Dragon Shaman (brass) 10
[/spoiler]

I've rolled ability scores, and have 17, 16, 15, 8, 7, 7 to work with.  Currently my plans look like this.
TN Human Conjurer 5/Malconvoker 5
banned schools: evocation, illusion
alternate class features: enhanced summoning, rapid summoning (UA)
languages: abyssal, aquan, auran, celestial, common, draconic, ignan, infernal, terran
Str 7, Dex 16, Con 14 (15 - 1 human), Int 24 (17, + 1 human, +2 lvls 4 and 8, +4 enhancement), Wis 7, Cha 8

I'm not sure on illusion as my second banned school.  I want enchantment and necromancy available to help me make the opposed Charisma checks for planar binding because my Cha is low, but missing out on the defensive abilities and faked extra conjurations of illusion hurts.  Suggestions?

1 Conjurer 1  Rapid Summoning; Augment SummoningB, Spell Focus (conjuration), open feat (human bonus); Bluff 2 cc, Concentration 4, Know Arcana 4, Know the Planes 4, Spellcraft 4, Speak Languages Aquan, Auran Draconic, Ignan
2 Conjurer 2  Bluff 2.5 cc, Concentration 5, Know Arcana 5, Know the Planes 5, Spellcraft 5, +2 points open
3 Conjurer 3  Obtain Familiar; Bluff 3 cc, Concentration 6, Know Arcana 6, Know the Planes 6, Spellcraft 6, +2 points open
4 Conjurer 4  Bluff 3.5 cc, Concentration 7, Know Arcana 7, Know the Planes 7, Spellcraft 7, +2 points open
5 Conjurer 5  Enhanced Summoning (+2 DC to dispel summoned creatures); Bluff 4 cc, Concentration 8, Know Arcana 8, Know the Planes 8, Spellcraft 8, +2 points open
6 Malconvoker 1  Deceptive Summons, Unrestricted Conjuration; open feat; Bluff 9, Concentration 9, Spellcraft 9
7 Malconvoker 2  Planar Binding; Bluff 10, Concentration 10, Know Arcana 10, Know the Planes 10, Spellcraft 10
8 Malconvoker 3  Skill Focus (Bluff)B; Bluff 11, Concentration 11, Know Arcana 11; Know the Planes 11; Spellcraft 11, +3 points open
9 Malconvoker 4  Deceptive Summons (fury); Summon Elemental; Bluff 12, Concentration 12, Know Arcana 12, Know the Planes 12, Spellcraft 12, +3 points open
10 Malconvoker 5  Fiendish Legion; Bluff 13, Concentration 13, Know Arcana 13, Know the Planes 13, Spellcraft 13, +3 points open

I know I want to take the Dimensional Jaunt reserve feat at level 12 to serve as a grapple escape.  I want Sculpt Spell at some point, and I'm considering Heighten Spell to extend the usefulness of low-level save or suck spells, as well as possibly allow powering my reserve feats with weaker spells if necessary.  Most of our fights are fairly short, so Extend Spell seems less useful.  Sudden Widen looks nice, but I'm unsure whether I'd be better going for that, Widen Spell + Metamagic School Focus, or just picking up a metamagic rod and saving my feats for something better.  Please give me some help with feat selection/arrangement, and explanation of reasoning if you offer any drastic changes.

I'm thinking about throwing those 17 unspent skill points into cross class Ride ranks to help me get around on my speedy or flying summons, and/or Craft ranks to let me make more difficult items with Fabricate.  Good ideas?  Can I do better?

spellbook
freebies for level gain[spoiler]
  • Level 0: all except evocation and illusion
  • Level 1: Grease, Identify, Mage Armor, Obscuring Mist, Protection from Evil, Shield, Stand, Summon Monster I, Wall of Smoke
  • Level 2: Cloud of Bewilderment, Glitterdust, Summon Monster II, Web
  • Level 3: Magic Circle Against Evil, Magic Circle Against Good, Phantom Steed, Summon Monster III
  • Level 4: Assay Spell Resistance, Lesser Geas, Solid Fog, Summon Monster IV
  • Level 5: Cloudkill, Lesser Planar Binding, Summon Monster V
[/spoiler]
purchased scrolls[spoiler]
  • Level 2: Eagle's Splendor
  • Level 3: Haste, Slow
  • Level 4: Bestow Curse, Dimensional Anchor, Fear
  • Level 5: Fabricate, Teleport
[/spoiler]

WBL is standard (49k), and the cost of adding spells by scroll is kicking my ass.  Am I getting ahead of myself picking up extra spells meant for binding demons and forcing them to agree to my terms so soon?  Is there something critical to add that I've forgotten?  Also, in case the cleric proves reticent or too dead to cast it, is there an easy way for me to get Know Opponent onto my spell list?

possessions[spoiler]
  • Headband of Intellect +4 w/ Circlet of Persuasion added for 50% price hike: 22,750 gp
  • Ring of Mighty Summons: 14,000 gp
  • purchase and addition of scrolls to spellbook: 8,250 gp
  • remaining liquid assets: 4,000 gp
[/spoiler]

I'm considering picking up a handy haversack because my carrying capacity is so low, but my funds are low too, and I still feel pretty naked.  I'm having a hard time striking a balance between being good at what I want to do, and good enough at situations that may be forced upon me by chance.

Please help me get it together.
"We managed to make an NPC puke an undead monster."
"That sounds like a victory to me."

Anklebite

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2010, 05:22:53 PM »
it's 50gp per spell level to just add spells to your spellbook. it's written up in the back of the PHB, right before the spells if I recall correctly.
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weenog

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2010, 05:30:03 PM »
it's 50gp per spell level to just add spells to your spellbook. it's written up in the back of the PHB, right before the spells if I recall correctly.
How's that?  PHB page 179 says materials and costs are 100 gp per page, and 1 page per spell level.  Spells copied from another's spellbook does say spell level * 50 gp for the priveledge, coming out to 150*level per spell, and I do intend to exploit this with the illusionist already in the party, not so sure this DM will allow for this beforehand though.
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ninjarabbit

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 05:31:54 PM »
Go focused conjurer and ban enchantment, the extra spell slots are well worth it.

 Improved initiative should be your open feat.

I'd ditch the last 2 levels of wizard and go master specialist instead and I'd finish off the build with master specialist after 5 levels of malconvoker.

weenog

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 05:37:22 PM »
I'd love to have some Master Specialist, but it's banned until further notice.  Conditions of this game make the PrC essentially free, so DM says no go until he's revised the entry requirements to his liking.  Not a safe bet until I know what the cost will actually be.

Is there any particular reason not to follow Malconvoker to 9, or are we just talking opportunity cost not getting more Master Specialist?
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ninjarabbit

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 06:19:52 PM »
Levels 6-9 of malconvoker are nothing special unless you're into planar binding. Plus if you continue the path of master specialist you'll eventually be able to swift cast conjuration spells 3x/day without adjustment. With standard action summoning that means lots of options.

weenog

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2010, 06:31:06 PM »
I do want to get into planar binding; the total ban on cohorts means long-term controllable help will be hard to come by.  I'm not so certain I can actually make it work very well given my Cha score, and with Lesser Geas to screw up opposing ability checks out of the picture if I give up enchantment for focused specialist.

If I can't make planar binding work for me, that swift cast conjuration is very appealing.  It remains to be seen how and when the DM will revise the entry requirements on Master Specialist, however.
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Fluffles

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2010, 06:33:56 PM »
I hate the whole, "Flaws must effect you character directly" thing. If you are born with a flaw, the character will either:

1) Train in a way so the flaw becomes a benefit (Karmic Striker + Vulnerable)
or
2) Stay the hell away from what he is bad at. (Wizard with Non-Combatant)

:-\

weenog

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2010, 06:42:40 PM »
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the ruling on flaws either, but I can see why he did it that way.  Anyone with a lick of sense knows flaws are imbalanced as hell and you should take as many as you can get away with under normal circumstances, and laugh all the way to the bank.  This is his attempt to allow them as an option for players that would want them, but keep them under control.  He's well-meaning, just sometimes annoying.
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Havok4

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2010, 07:18:43 PM »
Also he seems to have issues with his houserules, the whole +1 bonuses to ability scores is indicative of that. Although his attempts to improve game balance seem to be all over the place with some reasonable nerfs to high tier classes like the cleric and some house rules that seem to be there just to mess the player up whenever the DM wants, like the familiar thing. For your character focused specialist does seem like it would be a good idea.

Anklebite

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2010, 07:20:20 PM »
it's obviously a method to screw over casters. by doing so, he can start sniping the familiars of the casters he doesn't like.
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weenog

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2010, 07:24:53 PM »
He is trying to bring the more powerful casters down in overall capability (poor druid can't wild shape more than 1/day and natural spell doesn't exist, this when polymorph shapechange and the like have gone missing).

Sounds like focused specialist is a popular option here.   Do you guys think trying to get into planar binding with a Cha of 8 and no enchantment is a bad move, or should I still be able to manage that effectively as long as I'm careful about what I try to bind?
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Havok4

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2010, 08:11:50 PM »
it's obviously a method to screw over casters. by doing so, he can start sniping the familiars of the casters he doesn't like.

I know, but it just remind me too much of what one DM I read about here did with a swordsage where if he lost a special bonded weapon he lost all class features. It just seems to be a really jerk way to balance a character.

Anklebite

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2010, 08:15:00 PM »
it's obviously a method to screw over casters. by doing so, he can start sniping the familiars of the casters he doesn't like.

I know, but it just remind me too much of what one DM I read about here did with a swordsage where if he lost a special bonded weapon he lost all class features. It just seems to be a really jerk way to balance a character.

I agree. personally, when a DM pulls that kind of shit, I tend to shove it right back in their faces. first, I make something unaffected by their silly rules. then, I proceed to snipe the shit out of every familiar I see.
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weenog

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2010, 08:38:11 PM »
The DM hasn't been too nasty about familiars, so far.  We've had the illusionist's familiar die once and that was when he sent it alone into enemy-strewn darkness to scout ahead.  I've been responsible for the hideous burning death of an enemy's familiar, though.

You're right though, it is a large risk, even if it's not come up much.  Fortunately, the caster's familiar doesn't need to take any actions to help with casting successfully, it just needs to be there.  I think I'll see about adding familiar pocket to my spells known, cast it when things get hairy (or hell, cast it at the beginning of the day, it's an hour/level duration), and instruct my familiar to ready an action each round to dive in if something dangerous comes at us.  It's a free action to take him back out, so it should be repeatable each round if need be.
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Anklebite

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Re: Malconvoker for game with little op and lot of house rules?
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2010, 09:04:50 PM »
The DM hasn't been too nasty about familiars, so far.  We've had the illusionist's familiar die once and that was when he sent it alone into enemy-strewn darkness to scout ahead.  I've been responsible for the hideous burning death of an enemy's familiar, though.

You're right though, it is a large risk, even if it's not come up much.  Fortunately, the caster's familiar doesn't need to take any actions to help with casting successfully, it just needs to be there.  I think I'll see about adding familiar pocket to my spells known, cast it when things get hairy (or hell, cast it at the beginning of the day, it's an hour/level duration), and instruct my familiar to ready an action each round to dive in if something dangerous comes at us.  It's a free action to take him back out, so it should be repeatable each round if need be.
now you're thinking with portals!  :D
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