Author Topic: Raising Manifester Level?  (Read 11612 times)

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Endarire

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Raising Manifester Level?
« on: April 20, 2010, 03:20:29 AM »
CL is easier to boost than ML.  Assuming I can only use things that specifically mention boosting ML, what's available?

I know of these things:
-Overchannel (feat)
-Wilder's Wild Surge (class feature)
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2010, 03:47:58 AM »
Anything that raises CL of spell-likes raises the CL of powers, by virtue of all powers being PLAs, and all PLAs being SLAs due to transparency.
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Phirsole

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2010, 05:07:33 AM »
In the MIC is an item (amulett IIRC), which allows you to raise you ML for a few manifestations/day, but it does not stack with Overchannel or Wild Surge (it explicitly says so).

The orange ioun stone of the DMG raises the CL of all casting classes by +1. In the XPH is a section about ioun stones and their uses for psions - the orange stone is NOT included. Because of that, we assume the +1 to CL does NOT apply to ML for this item (RAI). Further, a bonus to ML is better than a bonus to CL, thanks to the various augments most powers offer. So, you should NOT assume that every CL+1-item is automatically ML+1.

That being said, a +1 to CL slotless item is 30,000gp (Ioun stone), and slotted items (ring and robe are in the MIC) are 20,000gp. Take these prices by 1,0 or by 1,5 for +1 to ML-items, and you should be fine.

We had a campaign, where the psion was overchanneling often. He received a crystal, which gave him DR 3 for overchannel-damage. Further, the DM allowed him to use a Mystic Ring of Fire (+1 CL for fire spells, +2d6 damage 3/day on a fire spell, 7,500gp) for his manifestations. But dealing fire damage is not the most efficient way to spend you PP, anyway.
 

Samb

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2010, 05:09:58 AM »
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127103

That should have everything you need.  He never got to putting powerlink shards in there but they do something better than raise ML; they ignore ML all together.

Brainpiercing

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 10:17:27 AM »
I just read this: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a after it being pointed out in the Giantip thread, and I must say I like it more than the Soulcaster. It's a pretty sexy class for Ardents with minimal ardent investment, or for Psionic classes with minimal meldshaper investment.

Incarnate or Totemist 2/Ardent2 (or 1 if your GM allows taking powers of greater than 1st level at Ardent 1) with Practiced Manifester at lvl 3/SM10... Really nice, especially for a natural weapon user who doesn't need a lot of BAB.

Oh, AND it can raise your ML by 1 and by 2 from level 7 on. Only for one power at a time, BUT that might be enough for some sick augments....
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 10:20:14 AM by Brainpiercing »

Surreal

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 03:31:22 PM »
The soul manifester is pretty much word for word copied over from the soulcaster, yet I too like it more for psionics. Psionics and meldshaping feel like they mesh together better flavourwise, especially with the ardent and it's concept of ideals and mantles. I even made an Incarnum mantle on the homebrew subforum, though it didn't get much notice.

The arcane/psionic investment ties up an essentia until you use it, which is annoying, so it's probably best used for a buff or an early save-or-die.
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awaken DM golem

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 07:09:05 PM »
Dragon #349 has the Psiotheurgist stuff.
CL=CL+ML and ML=CL+ML ; on just one school/discipline link up. I don't remember if it can be taken more than once.
So a 1/2 CL race with Spell Focus feat in the right school, gets a +10 ML, or even a +14 ML with Practiced Spellcaster.
Or a Cerebremancer set-up. Also works with Divine, Mystic Theurge, and Monastic Servant of Auppennser.
http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/leof_msoa.htm

I'd hafta get it out of storage to get the extra details. (sigh)

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2010, 12:29:21 AM »
Binding a metamagic rod to your hands slot using psionic open chakra (MoI) increases your (generic) caster level by 1.

Arcanist gloves from the MIC raise arcane caster level by 2 for 1st level spells. If, like in my current campaign, psionics is simply considered to be a mechanical revamp of the sorcerer (and are considered arcane casters by that rubric), these'll do you some good 2/day, and are more useful for psions than arcane spellcasters. They cost 500 gp each, and you can use multiple pairs throughout the day.

Orange ioun stone raises generic caster level by 1.

Anything that decreases augmentation costs kinda do this, sorta, because they let you spend more effective power points than your manifester level would otherwise allow. So if a torc of power preservation reduces your manifesting cost by 1, you get a 'free' point of augmentation, thereby letting you toss another one on if you feel like.

It's not RAI, but RAW you could argue that Practiced Manifester raises the manifester level of your schism'd mind by four.
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Negative Zero

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2010, 12:50:34 AM »
Earth Power works via the method Lycan mentioned; it makes the power cheaper, so you effectively get to augment it one ML for free.

Keep in mind that the Torc was errata'd to 3/day, which is very lame compared to the continual version that existed before.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2010, 01:17:27 AM »
Earth Power works via the method Lycan mentioned; it makes the power cheaper, so you effectively get to augment it one ML for free.

Keep in mind that the Torc was errata'd to 3/day, which is very lame compared to the continual version that existed before.
That also makes the torc pretty well useless.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Anklebite

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 01:30:46 AM »
Earth Power works via the method Lycan mentioned; it makes the power cheaper, so you effectively get to augment it one ML for free.

Keep in mind that the Torc was errata'd to 3/day, which is very lame compared to the continual version that existed before.
That also makes the torc pretty well useless.
errata? I see no errata. I also neither hear no errata, nor speak of an
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 01:33:01 AM »
MIC isn't considered errata, regardless of what the book says; otherwise, it'd be OGL.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Havok4

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2010, 01:55:05 AM »
Exactly, there is no rule saying that you cannot use the old version.

Negative Zero

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 01:57:48 AM »
I was fairly certain that the more recent edition of something trumps the older version. If you can use the old version, doesn't that mean some broken spells that were fixed in SpC can be used?

Havok4

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 02:02:45 AM »
Technically yes as there is no rule preventing that, and due to WotC policy primary sources take precedence. But the intent of the books were to overrule the old versions, there just is no rule that makes it work that way.

Negative Zero

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2010, 02:09:45 AM »
So then why don't we just use the old broken 3.0 Psionics Handbook stuff, if we aren't drawing a line there?

Anklebite

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2010, 02:16:10 AM »
So then why don't we just use the old broken 3.0 Psionics Handbook stuff, if we aren't drawing a line there?
well, I'm of the personal opinion that complete psionic doesn't exist.
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Surreal

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2010, 02:19:03 AM »
So then why don't we just use the old broken 3.0 Psionics Handbook stuff, if we aren't drawing a line there?
well, I'm of the personal opinion that complete psionic doesn't exist.
I kinda like the Ardent...
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The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis

Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category
Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities
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Endarire

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2010, 03:02:21 AM »
What was so broken about 3.0 psionics?
Hood - My first answer to all your build questions; past, present, and future.

Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Anklebite

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Re: Raising Manifester Level?
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2010, 03:03:38 AM »
What was so broken about 3.0 psionics?
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