Author Topic: Terribly Low Scores  (Read 7459 times)

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2010, 03:38:37 PM »
Well... starting at 1st level, melee does just fine. Depending on how well you optimize vs. how well the casters optimize, you can keep up till at least the mid levels, and in games with clueless sods who make things like swashbuckler 4/druid 4, you'll still be dominating at 20th... despite your humble beginnings. Int and wis 3 should be fun to RP, too. :D
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skydragonknight

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2010, 03:48:12 PM »
The idea of a 1st level druid whose animal companion could kick the snot out of him still amuses me no matter how many times I see it. Don't fumble that handle animal check. ;)
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ninjarabbit

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2010, 04:22:34 PM »
Dragonborn water orc: +4 str, +4 con, -2 dex, -2 int, -2 wis, -2 cha

Str 17 (13 + 4)
Dex 8 (10 - 2)
Con 14 (10 + 4)
Int 3 (4 -2 but int has to be a minimum of 3)
Wis 3 (5 -2)
Cha 6 (8 - 2)

Take endurance and steadfast determination as your first 2 feats so your low wis score is a non-factor. Now you have the makings of a decent bruiser, probably a whirling frenzy lion totem/wolf totem barbarian.

NO! You do not want to play a melee class! (Unless you can be an Incarnate Construct Maug, buts that's something else entirely...)

I know but I didn't want to give the generic 'be a druid' answer

Anklebite

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2010, 04:25:17 PM »
DFA is the best option to me.
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Growin

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2010, 04:25:28 PM »
I wouldn't want to play a character with int and wis scores of 3.  I'd rather play the druid's animal companion.  More roleplaying potential.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2010, 04:27:05 PM by Growin »

Jopustopin

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2010, 04:28:12 AM »
Well I've heard from two of the players.  One of them said he wanted to play a dungeon delver from Complete Adventure. I told him to play a Factotum instead of a rogue if he really wanted to do it (With the hope I can convince him to go straight factotum after he starts playing).  The second player wants to play a level adjusted race (Mischta "Twilight Ogres" from Races of Ansalon) Spellthief. 

Dragonborn is off the table for me (No bahamut in dragonlance or even the equivalent Paladine is a mortal in fifth age).  But I wasn't asking so much as what I should play, but what you guys would play so that's all good.

I think I'll just play a melee druid 20.  Go summoner in the early levels (spend my money on buying items to improve my animal companion) then focus on wild shape at higher levels.  Beckon the Frozen at 3rd level; Natural Spell at 6th; at 9th I might go heavy armor proficiency and get some +1 Beastskin chitin plate mail (Races of Dragon).  I'll have to get a Ring of Arming because god knows I won't be able to walk around in plate mail.

Even though this itself isn't 'optimal' i'm still worried I'm going to vastly show up my party. I made some minor changes at first level (basically switching dexterity and strength so I can wield a spear and wear padded armor without being in medium encumbrance; spending 2 skill points on common because it's not an automatic language for my race in dragonlance -  [Ice Folk])  We'll see, with my low Saving DC's compared to other Druids of the level I think Melee/Summoning/Buffing is all that's available to me. 

I could go all out and blow everyone out of the water with certain feat selections.  But ask yourself; would that really be that hard?  If you want hard optimize a kender druid 4/swashbuckler 4.


OblivionSmurf83

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2010, 08:45:52 AM »
An interesting option for Druid 20 is to play a Sidhe Scholar, from Dragon 339. It will drop your hit die from a d8 to d6, and make your Wild Shape form seem 'otherwordly', that is, it makes you unable to blend in with other animal forms. In addition, your animal companion starts off with an attitude of unfriendly towards any humanoids who aren't you.

In exchange for these drawbacks, your animal companion gets +1 hit points per HD, +2 Dex and +2 Cha, making it a bit better at fighting than you. You also get Knowledge Arcana as a bonus skill, some bonuses to skill checks for Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nature), and Survival. You also get the equivalent of the 3.5 Spellcasting Prodigy feat, craft staff, and the ability to eventually add Evil domain spells to your spell list. Since your stats mean you'll be avoiding combat a lot anyway, and you'll be low on spells due to your low Wis score, this tradeoff may well be worth it for you.

Jopustopin

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2010, 04:43:44 AM »
An interesting option for Druid 20 is to play a Sidhe Scholar, from Dragon 339. It will drop your hit die from a d8 to d6, and make your Wild Shape form seem 'otherwordly', that is, it makes you unable to blend in with other animal forms. In addition, your animal companion starts off with an attitude of unfriendly towards any humanoids who aren't you.

In exchange for these drawbacks, your animal companion gets +1 hit points per HD, +2 Dex and +2 Cha, making it a bit better at fighting than you. You also get Knowledge Arcana as a bonus skill, some bonuses to skill checks for Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nature), and Survival. You also get the equivalent of the 3.5 Spellcasting Prodigy feat, craft staff, and the ability to eventually add Evil domain spells to your spell list. Since your stats mean you'll be avoiding combat a lot anyway, and you'll be low on spells due to your low Wis score, this tradeoff may well be worth it for you.

no way, I want the hit points.  I think I'm gonna see how far I can push the druid into the role of Big Stupid Fighter.  Full Plate/animated tower shield;  why? See below.

Just found out what a third player is playing: An Elf Mariner....  If you want to see how terrible a base class can get look no further than Dragonlance supplement "Legends of the Twins"  I think they are trying to 'one-up' the samurai in terms of uselessness.  

In the book they talk about upgrading the mariner from the Age of Mortals supplement.  Um... yeah right...

Solo

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2010, 04:46:34 AM »
That mariner will be an albatross around your neck...

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Jopustopin

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2010, 04:56:27 AM »
I actually laughed out loud.  I think I'll nick name him albatross in the game without telling him why.   

The mariner reminds me a lot of the Lightning Warrior.  They both sacrifice so much for flavor you know? 

NiteCyper

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2010, 05:05:10 AM »
I actually laughed out loud.  I think I'll nick name him albatross in the game without telling him why.   

The mariner reminds me a lot of the Lightning Warrior.  They both sacrifice so much for flavor you know? 
1. To be literal, the albatross symbolized (the burden of) guilt, not (just) burden;
2. re: reminiscence of the "mariner" to the Lightning Warrior: I see not your point as the Lightning Warrior is reportedly OP;
3. advice: CO Diary: The Druid!

Trivium: the search terms "lightning warrior raidy" is hentai.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 05:09:49 AM by NiteCyper »
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Akalsaris

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2010, 12:46:09 PM »
I think you'll do fine as a melee druid with those stats. 

For other possible feats instead of summoning focused, I'd suggest Companion Spellbound (share spells out to 30ft away) and Improved Toughness.  I know those 2 feats have saved my melee druid practically every encounter - a d8 HD just isn't enough when the DM throws really heavy hitters at you, and it's good to have the flexibility to buff yourself and your companion without keeping the companion within arms' reach.

And wow, the mariner is terrible.  One thing does leap out at me though, and that's a 1 level dip - 6 skills/level, full BAB, good fort/ref, a bonus feat from an excellent list, sailor lore, and free EWP: Net.  It's actually a better 1 level dip than the ranger for some builds.  Between the mariner and the samurai, I like that the mariner at least gives some good choices for its bonus feats, but it's definitely a terrible class.

Havok4

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2010, 01:09:26 PM »
The mariner class is probably the worst PC class I have ever seen, please tell us how that character turns out.

Anklebite

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2010, 02:02:11 PM »
I actually laughed out loud.  I think I'll nick name him albatross in the game without telling him why.   

The mariner reminds me a lot of the Lightning Warrior.  They both sacrifice so much for flavor you know? 
1. To be literal, the albatross symbolized (the burden of) guilt, not (just) burden;
2. re: reminiscence of the "mariner" to the Lightning Warrior: I see not your point as the Lightning Warrior is reportedly OP;
3. advice: CO Diary: The Druid!

Trivium: the search terms "lightning warrior raidy" is hentai.
dude, your humor detection array seriously needs to be looked at.
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Suzerain

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2010, 07:27:36 PM »
I really wonder how one can know about LW and not know about its fatal flaw: It doesn't have a familiar. That's, like, totally crippling to a gish class that tries to get by with its spells and fighting skills in combination.

Lightning Warrior is crap. I'd rather play a Commoner.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 07:29:07 PM by Suzerain »

Solo

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2010, 07:28:25 PM »
What if the Lightening Warrior took the Obtain Familiar feat? Could that possibly mitigate the suckitude?

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Negative Zero

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2010, 07:29:39 PM »
What if the Lightening Warrior took the Obtain Familiar feat? Could that possibly mitigate the suckitude?

Nah, he still can't Specialize.

Suzerain

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2010, 07:39:44 PM »
Also, I think we agree this fits squarely in the TO part of CharOp. Seriously, which DM you know ever let you take Obtain Familiar as a LW?

Violating the flavor of the LW like that can only be done with some of the most dangerous rollplayer-DMs.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2010, 08:09:45 PM »
If you're a real roleplayer, though, you'll play a weak race like a sharn for your lightning warrior character.  Sharn racials can't specialize, and they don't get a familiar either, so it's got the same crippling weaknesses that make a guy fun to roleplay.
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wotmaniac

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Re: Terribly Low Scores
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2010, 08:11:55 PM »
If you're a real roleplayer, though, you'll play a weak race like a sharn for your lightning warrior character.  Sharn racials can't specialize, and they don't get a familiar either, so it's got the same crippling weaknesses that make a guy fun to roleplay.
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