Author Topic: Magic Missile Optimization  (Read 76994 times)

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McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #80 on: May 03, 2010, 07:06:20 PM »
True, but when the damage just expands in a linear fashion, it loses a lot of it's appeal. I picked a two round duration because it illustrated the point, and it ceases to compound damage after the second round of casting. But when every additional combat round just deals the same volume of damage...

Granted, you could Residual Metamagic it into additional applications, bouncing which was rod-boosted and which was Residual boosted in a 2 out of 3 loop, but it's not quite the same, and pretty limited in per day ability, then.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Mixster

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #81 on: May 03, 2010, 07:59:35 PM »
True, but when the damage just expands in a linear fashion, it loses a lot of it's appeal. I picked a two round duration because it illustrated the point, and it ceases to compound damage after the second round of casting. But when every additional combat round just deals the same volume of damage...

Granted, you could Residual Metamagic it into additional applications, bouncing which was rod-boosted and which was Residual boosted in a 2 out of 3 loop, but it's not quite the same, and pretty limited in per day ability, then.
First, you are completely correct, this is close to be not a viable sorcerer build unless you want to copy black mage. It has nothing of note, and dealing more than 2k damage in one round makes no sense anyway. This build can only do all this once per day, after wards it has to cope with being a regular sorcerer of about 15th level worth of spells. Where all his spells are probably either quickened, repeating or twinned (at +1 level each). However, apart from that the build has nothing to offer that a regular sorcerer build can't do, so it will get outmatched by most wizards that know shield or invisibility or both. Taking damage will neuter it totally. I'm in no ways attempting to post a viably build, I'm just trying to pump out as much damage with magic missile as possible.

Second, Due to the manner of Repeating spells inside repeating spells inside repeating spells, the Build would dish out most damage if it did it in round 4 or 5. However, I don't think there are spells for that.

Third, I edited the post to account for the energy admixture mistakes, and also to account for choker having extra actions.

Fourth, can we find a way to add more actions? This is the only thing we need now. With Level 9 spells at our hands one should think there'd be a possibility with all those spells we can get our hands on.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #82 on: May 03, 2010, 08:05:02 PM »
Shield is irrelevant. FMM gets to ignore Brooches of Shielding and Shield spells at third level.

Add Echoing Spell to it, if you really want to add some versatility. Since Caster levels above 9 do not matter in this case...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Mixster

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2010, 08:18:12 PM »
Shield is irrelevant. FMM gets to ignore Brooches of Shielding and Shield spells at third level.

Add Echoing Spell to it, if you really want to add some versatility. Since Caster levels above 9 do not matter in this case...

Where is Echoing Spell printed? I can't seem to find it.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #84 on: May 03, 2010, 08:22:13 PM »
Secrets of Xendrick. I believe it is a +3 metamagic.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

skydragonknight

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #85 on: May 04, 2010, 05:43:48 PM »
Since Dragon Compendium is in, what about the Dvati race? :D
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #86 on: May 04, 2010, 05:52:21 PM »
Weren't Dvati specifically called out in the op as not allowed? Because if I was imagining things and they are, that's totally going to boost spells/round ability.

Granted, could also fusion with a psionicist+schism on top of that for moarmindz. You get free still and silent thanks to arcane thesis...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

wotmaniac

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #87 on: May 04, 2010, 05:55:29 PM »
Since Dragon Compendium is in, what about the Dvati race? :D
nice find  :D

Weren't Dvati specifically called out in the op as not allowed? Because if I was imagining things and they are, that's totally going to boost spells/round ability.
nope -- just no infinity loops.  (and I gave a specific amount of xp -- if that matters any)

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

wotmaniac

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #88 on: May 05, 2010, 10:30:53 PM »
Could someone do me a HUGE favor, and check this for being legal -- I keep getting lost.

THANKS! 

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #89 on: May 05, 2010, 11:13:45 PM »
add fist of valor affiliation for an extra d6 per shot.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #90 on: May 06, 2010, 12:25:23 AM »
Could someone do me a HUGE favor, and check this for being legal -- I keep getting lost.

THANKS! 
Level 15 feat is illegal. Don't have GAF until 16th. Take random BS feat at 15th, then self DCFS it at 16th into Arcane thesis: GAF.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

wotmaniac

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #91 on: May 06, 2010, 12:34:58 AM »
Could someone do me a HUGE favor, and check this for being legal -- I keep getting lost.

THANKS! 
Level 15 feat is illegal. Don't have GAF until 16th. Take random BS feat at 15th, then self DCFS it at 16th into Arcane thesis: GAF.
which would effectively make it legal -- yes?

also, does the math seem to work out right?

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #92 on: May 06, 2010, 12:44:13 AM »
It's legal, since DCFS doesn't require you to choose a feat you could have qualified for at 15th. Technically, you don't even need to meet the prerequisites for the feat you select, according to the wording of the spell. Either way, it's legal, since you can DCFS by yourself, you just cannot be good aligned.

I haven't checked the math, since I'm half asleep.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Havok4

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #93 on: May 06, 2010, 12:52:02 AM »
It's legal, since DCFS doesn't require you to choose a feat you could have qualified for at 15th. Technically, you don't even need to meet the prerequisites for the feat you select, according to the wording of the spell. Either way, it's legal, since you can DCFS by yourself, you just cannot be good aligned.

I haven't checked the math, since I'm half asleep.
Lawful aligned, as the DCS is only chaotic, not evil.

McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #94 on: May 06, 2010, 12:52:48 AM »
It's legal, since DCFS doesn't require you to choose a feat you could have qualified for at 15th. Technically, you don't even need to meet the prerequisites for the feat you select, according to the wording of the spell. Either way, it's legal, since you can DCFS by yourself, you just cannot be good aligned.

I haven't checked the math, since I'm half asleep.
Lawful aligned, as the DCS is only chaotic, not evil.
^ Proof I'm half-asleep ^
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #95 on: May 06, 2010, 01:16:22 AM »
It's legal, since DCFS doesn't require you to choose a feat you could have qualified for at 15th. Technically, you don't even need to meet the prerequisites for the feat you select, according to the wording of the spell. Either way, it's legal, since you can DCFS by yourself, you just cannot be good aligned.

I haven't checked the math, since I'm half asleep.
Lawful aligned, as the DCS is only chaotic, not evil.
Also, wizards can cast against-alignment spells.

Wording of the spell states "for which it qualifies" in both embrace and shun, so no loophole there.  When they made the spells, they were crazy, but not stupid
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 01:21:33 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #96 on: May 06, 2010, 10:43:58 AM »
Either way, you qualify at level 16, which is when you can cast the DCFS yourself. Still legal.

I meant some DMs have a thing against casting any diametrically opposed spells and make an immediate alignment shift. I was trying to keep it as 100% anyone-can-use freedom to it.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Havok4

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #97 on: May 06, 2010, 12:36:45 PM »


I meant some DMs have a thing against casting any diametrically opposed spells and make an immediate alignment shift. I was trying to keep it as 100% anyone-can-use freedom to it.

I always found that a silly way to run a game as a character could murder a million orphan babies in through horrible torture and then cast a single [good] spell and be considered a good character.

McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #98 on: May 06, 2010, 01:57:19 PM »


I meant some DMs have a thing against casting any diametrically opposed spells and make an immediate alignment shift. I was trying to keep it as 100% anyone-can-use freedom to it.

I always found that a silly way to run a game as a character could murder a million orphan babies in through horrible torture and then cast a single [good] spell and be considered a good character.
I never said it was a good way to do it.

And I've played under a DM that did that once. He said the evil always outweighed the good. A perfectly good person could cast a 0th level evil spell and spend the next 20 years recovering from the evil alignment shift, but it didn't work the other way around...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

skydragonknight

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #99 on: May 06, 2010, 05:09:50 PM »
How dare the Healing-focused Cleric cast Deathwatch to see if his teammates are okay! He deserves to lose his alignment and all standing with his deity!
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.