Author Topic: Magic Missile Optimization  (Read 76999 times)

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McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #100 on: May 06, 2010, 06:14:24 PM »
I never said his stance made any sense :P
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

lianightdemon

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #101 on: May 06, 2010, 06:20:14 PM »
I find alignment is a little silly, cause you could talk your way to having everything be good or evil.
Like the orphans what if they were all demon spawn orphans and you were smiting the evil?


McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #102 on: May 06, 2010, 06:27:14 PM »
Fortunately, evil and good in dnd relate to absolutes.just because they ARE evil doesn't mean they deserve to be smited, unless they are also acting on that evil nature. Smiting them because they happen to be evil because of their birth is an evil act if they have resisted the call of evil thus far.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

skydragonknight

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #103 on: May 07, 2010, 01:31:51 PM »
Yeah, you don't go around kill lawyers just because they're evil. Well, at least you don't always go around killing them.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 05:03:56 PM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Anklebite

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #104 on: May 07, 2010, 03:08:05 PM »
Yeah, you don't go around kill lawyers just because they're evil. Well, not at least you don't always go around killing them.
you don't go around killing lawyers. don't speak for the rest of us.   :eh
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Mixster

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2010, 04:45:22 PM »
Yeah, you don't go around kill lawyers just because they're evil. Well, not at least you don't always go around killing them.
you don't go around killing lawyers. don't speak for the rest of us.   :eh

Well, I'm not a paladin, so off course not, killing them is no benefit to me.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

Anklebite

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #106 on: May 10, 2010, 04:46:34 PM »
Yeah, you don't go around kill lawyers just because they're evil. Well, not at least you don't always go around killing them.
you don't go around killing lawyers. don't speak for the rest of us.   :eh

Well, I'm not a paladin, so off course not, killing them is no benefit to me.
I hunt for sport.
I do not suffer from paranoia; I enjoy every second of it.
Pioneer of the Ultimate Magus + Sublime Chord + Ultimate Magus combo

Mixster

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #107 on: May 10, 2010, 05:04:13 PM »
Yeah, you don't go around kill lawyers just because they're evil. Well, not at least you don't always go around killing them.
you don't go around killing lawyers. don't speak for the rest of us.   :eh

Well, I'm not a paladin, so off course not, killing them is no benefit to me.
I hunt for sport.

I have a moral dilemma then, would killing you be a good act?

By the way I have a new idea for a build, but it probably goes against the no unlimited combos rules.

What happens if you have leadership and you and your cohort both have the White Raven Tactics Maneuver from tome of battle. Can you repeatedly put each others action just after the other ones action and then replenish your actions?
Say, I use White Raven Tactics to put my cohort right after me, then I cast Quickened Magic Missile, then I replenish my maneuvers with a blade flourish (if I'm a warblade), then my Cohort puts my action right after his, and replenishes his actions, so on and an so forth until I run out of magic missile slots? Or simply actions.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

skydragonknight

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #108 on: May 10, 2010, 05:18:29 PM »
Quickening a spell and replenishing maneuvers are both Swift actions. WRT is an immediate action, which is either a swift action on your turn or it uses your next turn's swift action. Unless you're a Ruby Heart Vindicator, you simple won't have the actions to pull off.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Anklebite

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #109 on: May 10, 2010, 05:22:51 PM »
Yeah, you don't go around kill lawyers just because they're evil. Well, not at least you don't always go around killing them.
you don't go around killing lawyers. don't speak for the rest of us.   :eh

Well, I'm not a paladin, so off course not, killing them is no benefit to me.
I hunt for sport.
I have a moral dilemma then, would killing you be a good act?
you would be increasing the lawyer population, so no.
although if there is any confusion about what I meant, I hunt lawyers for sport.
I do not suffer from paranoia; I enjoy every second of it.
Pioneer of the Ultimate Magus + Sublime Chord + Ultimate Magus combo

skydragonknight

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #110 on: May 10, 2010, 05:37:15 PM »
We could do the same thing to lawyers that http://www.airshipentertainment.com/buckcomic.php?date=20081021.
Summary: serious euthanasia and population control.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Mixster

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #111 on: May 10, 2010, 06:34:28 PM »
Quickening a spell and replenishing maneuvers are both Swift actions. WRT is an immediate action, which is either a swift action on your turn or it uses your next turn's swift action. Unless you're a Ruby Heart Vindicator, you simple won't have the actions to pull off.

So We'd still need to shapechange into a choker to double our actions? And also shapechange Mr. Cohort. But then it would work, wouldn't it?
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

skydragonknight

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #112 on: May 10, 2010, 06:45:44 PM »
Quickening a spell and replenishing maneuvers are both Swift actions. WRT is an immediate action, which is either a swift action on your turn or it uses your next turn's swift action. Unless you're a Ruby Heart Vindicator, you simple won't have the actions to pull off.

So We'd still need to shapechange into a choker to double our actions? And also shapechange Mr. Cohort. But then it would work, wouldn't it?

Pretty Much. 1 swift for WRT and 1 swift+standard to recover(melee attack optional here), leaving you with two move actions and a standard to recursively do anything. Adaptive Style would take away a move action from the mix but leave a swift action so you'd have a bit more versatility with abilities requiring swift actions (including quickened spells).
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 06:47:39 PM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #113 on: May 10, 2010, 06:57:01 PM »
There's a minimum number that initiative can go to before it just wraps to the next round for delay purposes. It was covered in an article somewhere. -15, iirc.

And since WRT sets your initiative to 1 less than whoever used the manuever, it'll decrement down to it eventually. Assuming you have the ability to constantly refresh it.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

skydragonknight

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #114 on: May 10, 2010, 07:00:22 PM »
There's a minimum number that initiative can go to before it just wraps to the next round for delay purposes. It was covered in an article somewhere. -15, iirc.

And since WRT sets your initiative to 1 less than whoever used the manuever, it'll decrement down to it eventually. Assuming you have the ability to constantly refresh it.

If they're still alive by then, they're either a force dragon or invincible. Either way, best to run the hell away.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #115 on: May 10, 2010, 07:02:16 PM »
There's a minimum number that initiative can go to before it just wraps to the next round for delay purposes. It was covered in an article somewhere. -15, iirc.

And since WRT sets your initiative to 1 less than whoever used the manuever, it'll decrement down to it eventually. Assuming you have the ability to constantly refresh it.

If they're still alive by then, they're either a force dragon or invincible. Either way, best to run the hell away.
or just cast grease on the FB you pounded...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

wotmaniac

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #116 on: May 19, 2010, 01:42:21 PM »
so, I'm guessing that since there are no rebuttals, that this is legal?
okay.


I'll be back later with a little something else.  :smirk


EDIT:  wait a minute -- that math in the 3rd round seems a little fishy -- could you break it down a little for me, please, Mixster?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 01:48:56 PM by wotmaniac »

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

Mixster

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #117 on: May 19, 2010, 02:08:51 PM »
Yeah, but I'm not sure what you want to break down?
(I'm sorry it seems to be a bit off, this could be a simple addition error on my part)

We get 6 castings of greater arcane fusion, and each casting gives us: 12 Maximized and empowered magic Missiles + 8 Empowered Magic Missiles, so we multiply 6 by the number for each casting and get ourselves 72, Maxmized and empowered missile spells and 48 empowered magic missile spells.

We also had 6 castings of greater arcane fusion in the last round, they were repeating as well, and all the missiles in them were repeating, and so were the lesser arcane fusions in there.
For each greater arcane fusion there is also the missile that repeats and the lesser arcane fusions that repeats, let's calculate how much that is per greater arcane fusion:

Each Arcane fusion gets 12MA+8EA, All these missiles also repeats, so thats 24MA+16EA per casting we had in the last turn. Then there are the repeating lesser arcane fusion, an arcane fusion that is not twinned gives 2MA+2EA (due to them being twinned), but there are two castings of arcane fusion and they are both twinned, so we double it twice, this gives us 8MA+8EA.

So we add these numbers together, 24MA+16EA+8MA+8EA = 32MA + 24EA. This is for one Greater Arcane fusion cast the turn before, however, we cast 6 greater arcane fusions in the turn before, so we get 6*32MA +6*24EA = 192MA + 144EA, just from the repeating from the turn before.
Now we add these 192MA+144EA to our 72MA+48EA Which gives us 264MA+192EA.

We multiply by damage per spell to get:
264*150+192*127.5=64080

The trick here is that when you have repeating spells inside repeating greater arcane fusion the repeating ability triggers alot of times. Also Twinned spells inside Twinned spells gives a HUGE doubling.

Hope this clarifies it a bit.

EDIT:
Filling out this it would look like:
With Magic Items:
Most Damage -- Single Missile: 25
Most Damage -- Single Casting (with the repeating ones next turn): 44*150 +32*127.5 = 10680
1-Round Total Damage: 64080
Highest # of Missiles -- Single Casting: 6*76 = 456
Highest # of Missiles -- 1-round total: 6*456 = 2736
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 02:16:01 PM by Mixster »
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out

wotmaniac

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #118 on: May 19, 2010, 02:28:37 PM »
 :shock

where's the 150 and 127.5 coming from (sorry if I seem a little slow on the uptake)?
I think there might be something wrong with part/some of the equations.

I just want to make sure that everything's right -- for posterity, of course.   :)

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

Mixster

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #119 on: May 19, 2010, 09:31:31 PM »
They are accounted for under, damage per casting and damage per missile.

Each MA missile deals 25 damage, since it's (5 [maximixed D4+1) + 5 [Knowledge devotion])=10, then you have it empowered and energy admixtured, empowered adds 0.5*10=5, and energy admixtured adds 1*10=10, that totals to 25 for one maximized energy admixtured empowered magic missile, there are 6 missiles in one casting, since Force Missile Mage gives us one extra missile, 25*6 = 150.
Each EA Missile deals  21.25 damage, since it's(3.5 [Average D4+1] + 5 [Knowledge Devotion])=8.5, +4.25 for empower, + 8.5 for energy admixture = 21.75. 6*21.75 = 127.5 damage.

So MA = 150
EA = 127.5

The math should be right, but I might be off a little as I do most of it in my head, sometimes bringing up that slimy calculator tool. I've looked through it three times so it should be about right.
Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out