Author Topic: Magic Missile Optimization  (Read 77071 times)

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wotmaniac

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Magic Missile Optimization
« on: April 15, 2010, 09:41:30 AM »
 

Gratuitous Exposition
[spoiler]
Yeah, I know, this is probably a pretty craptastic concept; but I still feel like this could be fun. 
First, a little background:
The basis of such a character was originally inspired by an NPC that we encountered in a game a while back, a chaotic-evil mage named Maximilian Zeus (which I just found out is also the name of a DC Comics character -- but AFAIK, there shouldn't be any real connection; but who knows). Well, ol' MZ (for the purposes of this story) was the creator of the Magic Missile, and never had any equal in its casting.  His mastery of this spell was so prolific that when he was cursed by being turned in to a squirrel, he still maintained the ability to blast his magic missiles like nobody's business (to the tune of 15 maximized missiles per casting) -- at least according to the folklore that was handed down to me.

Fast-forward a few years -- I discover the gem known as the Force Missile Mage.  This gets my mind a-turning -- I've even mentioned it a couple of times lately.  So, I've come up with a little something, and thought that I'd see what can be done.
[/spoiler]

So anyway, I've decided simply to try to blow the top off this thing.  And since my powers of optimization are not anywhere near that of some of you, I'd like to see how far this can be pushed.


The Challenge:
This is real simple -- milk as much out of the Magic Missile spell as you possibly can.
The Parameters:
- This will be judged by the categories listed below (see "world record").
- Standard Point Buy (25 points)
- 190,000 XP (spend it how you want -- just make sure to subtract it appropriately)
- Standard Wealth-by-Level (for "with magic items") ; "no magic items" needs no gold, obviously.
- All official WotC material, to include all "officially endorsed/sponsored" material.
- You will have only 1 round of prep for buffs, etc. -- however, feel free to cast magic missile for as many rounds as you want.
- Multi-round effects that result from a single casting, such as with "repeat spell", will be counted with the round in which the original spell was cast ("repeat spell" is actually the only effect that does this that I can think of -- if I'm missing something, let me know).
- For the sake of simplicity, you are assumed to be in favorable conditions, with as many targets as you want, and any/all targets are living creatures that are susceptible to the normal full effects of the spell (however, you cannot dictate that they are particularly vulnerable).
- No infinity loops.
- Style points (along with plenty of cookies/cakes/pies) for anyone who can pull off every category within a section with a single build.  (sections = "no magic items" and "with magic items")
***special notes:***
- Due to the specific example given in the feat's description (and for ease of math), empower will simply multiply the damage of each missile by 1.5, after all adjustments to random variables have been made (unless anyone really has any severe objections).
- Maximize Spell -- I've seen a couple of interpretations; so for clarification, the effects of this feat will take place after any additional variables have been added. (again, this is as much for simplicity as for anything else -- please alert me to any objections).
- The feat "Reserves of Strength" will have the most conservative interpretation applied (i.e., can only exceed the cap by up to 3 levels)
- The spells Chain Missile from SC and Force Missile Storm from Drag.Mag. #309 do not count -- they would belong in their own thread; this is about Magic Missile specifically (while it is just a bunch of magic missiles, it's still cheating).  Most would probably see this as a no-brainer, but I just wanted to make sure to cover all of the bases.

"Why the 2 sections", you might ask?  Simply put, I find that builds that can be effective without the need for magic items to be much more elegant than ones that rely heavily on them; and therefore deserve proper attention (though I do understand and appreciate the value of magic items).

World Record: this is where I'll keep the tally for posted records -
No Magic Items:
Highest # of Missiles -- Single Casting: 192 from McPoyo
Highest # of Missiles -- 1-round total: 384 from McPoyo
Most Damage -- Single Missile: 512 from wotmaniac   
Most Damage -- Single Casting: 2424 from McPoyo
1-Round Total Damage: 4848 from McPoyo
 

With Magic Items:
Highest # of Missiles -- Single Casting: 192 from McPoyo
Highest # of Missiles -- 1-round total: 384 from McPoyo
Most Damage -- Single Missile: 1952 from wotmaniac under review 
Most Damage -- Single Casting: 4848 from McPoyo
1-Round Total Damage: 9696 from McPoyo
 

Have fun!  :)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 11:07:33 PM by wotmaniac »

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

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More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
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McPoyo

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 11:04:26 AM »
Since magic missile isn't a valid target for energy sub until level 2 of force missile mage, I'd probably change that feat order up a bit.

Conversely, You could do something like:
Instant Metamagic Sorcerer 6/Incantatrix 10/Whatever 4

Feats:
Iron Will (Or use the Otyugh Hole), Empower Spell, Arcane Thesis Magic Missile, Arcane Thesis Greater Arcane Fusion, Twin Spell, Practical Metamagic Twin Spell, Repeat Spell, Practical Metamagic Repeat Spell, Easy Metamagic Twin Spell. Not necessarily in that order. Easy Metamagic is from a Dragon Magazine, and since Greater Arcane Fusion is a universal school spell, you cannot use Metamagic School Focus instead, but it makes the trick a little more interesting and late blooming, but since all it does it take Twin spell from a +1 to +0 metamagic at that point, meh.

Tactics and DEAAAAAAAAATH...or whatever, hidden via spoiler. Wall of Text Warning.
[Spoiler]
Greater Arcane fusion is an 8th level spell from Complete Mage. It lets you cast a 4th and a 7th level spell, at the same time, in the order you wish, without using up slots or casting actions. The regular version of this spell is a 5th that lets you do the same thing, but with a 4th and 1st spell.

So, Twinned repeating G.Arcane Fusion as an 8th level spell (Both metamagics are +0 for this spell, due to feats), plugging in a Twinned Repeating Arcane Fusion spell as a 7th (two +1 metamagics), and a twinned repeating empowered maximized Magic missile as a 4th level spell (Twin is 0 for MM, Empower is a +1, Maximize is a +2 due to feats). In the Twinned Repeating Arcane Fusion in your 5th level slot, you put a twinned reapeating empowered maximized magic missile as he 4th level spell, and a twinned repeating magic missile as a first level spell (Both metamagics cost 0, remember).

Round 1) Total spells cast with one standard action, using the Instant Metamagic ACF so it doesn't increase the casting time (not that it particularly matters, either way):
-One twinned Repeating Greater Arcane Fusion, containing a twinned repeating empowered maximized magic missile, and a twinned repeating arcane fusion containing a twinned repeating empowered maximized magic missile and a twinned repeating magic missile.
-Netting two twinned repeating empowered maximized magic missiles, four repeating empowered maximized magic missiles, and two repeating arcane fusions containing a twinned repeating empowered maximized magic missile and a twinned repeating magic missile each.
-Netting twelve repeating empowered maximized magic missles, and four repeating magic missiles.

That's round one. That's a total of 60 empowered maximized magic missiles, and 20 magic missiles, total. Total damage in round one is 320 +20d4 + 60d2, splittable to up to 60 different targets. That's round one.

One round two, cast the same thing again, for Twelve repeating empowered maximized magic missiles, and four repeating magic missiles, PLUS the twelve empowered maximized magic missiles, and four magic missiles that REPEATED from round one.

Total of 120 empowered maximized magic missiles, and 40 magic missiles. 640 + 40d440+ + 120d2, splittable to 120 separate targets.

60d4 + 180d2 + 960 damage in two rounds.

If you want to make sure those hit, lead in with a dispel magic via metamagic rod of quicken to drop the shield or nightshield spell the guy has. Or instead of adding Empower and Maximize (because I just picked random metamagic feats that would boost a level 1 spell to level 4), use Heighten so almost all of those magic missiles bypass a lesser globe of invulnerability thanks to being a 4th level spell. Really, any metamagic feat you want works, fell drain, whatever. If you want to be really nasty, use the Quicken rod to cast two of those GAFs in the first round, instead. Doubles your output.

There's also still four levels open at the end of the build, because you are doing this at level 16. As soon as you get Greater Arcane Fusion (Well, technically 18th, since you don't get a feat at 16th, and you have to know GAF to take Arcane fusion for it, but only if you aren't using one of the myriad ways to swap a feat. You can perform a DCFS on yourself at level 16, to swap a feat once to get it, or psychic reform, etc. after all).

On top of this, say your enemy is immune to force, or you cannot dispel his shield, or whatever else, you are still a sorcerer. Who gets repeat and twin spell attached to ANYTHING you cast at only +1 spell level each. Have a ball nuking the hell out of the battlefield.
[/spoiler]

Alright, I think I remembered to include everything there. Sorry for the wall of text.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 11:32:54 AM by McPoyo »
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Grim Sage

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2010, 11:36:12 AM »
Not adding a build myself, but always loved the idea.
Some thoughts in case someone wants to use them:
- Argent Savant 1 adds 1 damage per die to Force spells.
- Reserves of Strength (DLCS) should add (at least) another missile.
- Artificer with dual wand wielder and/or a Rod of Many Wands can have a huge output of magic missiles in a round.
- A Spell Sovereign (Dragon 357) can get a Living Magic Missile as a familiar at level 1. Not too powerful, but awesome flavor.
- Other useful info in this thread

EDIT: Crap, Living Spell can not be added to targeted spells, just spells with an Area or Effect entry - there may be a way around this, but for now it's shot down.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 11:39:35 AM by Grim Sage »

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 12:10:10 PM »
war mage from the Age of Mortals DragonLance setting book. over 5 levels +3 per die of damage with all spells, cha to AC for  yourself and a couple of party members, and 2 bonus metamagic feats (but they are basically core only)
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Anklebite

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 01:14:10 PM »
there are other "magic missile" type spells in SpC, like force missile.
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Beltendu

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2010, 02:29:57 PM »
Where is the Force Missile Mage?

Other things I might consider would be the Argent Savant (as mentioned above), and perhaps ...

Crap.  Brain went out to lunch.  Can't remember the name.  Arcane caster, first posted in Complete Arcane, oriental flavor, has all those taboos and the Spell Secret thing.  I've seen it used for the Master of the Unseen Hand builds, since it's really good for focusing on a single spell with all that free metamagic you can get.  Not sure if magic missle (or any of it's successors in later levels) is on their list, but you could always use the more liberal reading of Extra Spell to get one of them, and then stack up all those spell secrets along with the appropriate PRCs.

(edit) Wu Jen!  That was the name. (/edit)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 02:31:41 PM by Beltendu »

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 02:31:40 PM »
Wu Jen

bah  :ninja by your own edit.

FMM is in a copy of dragon magazine and I'm pretty sure in one of the books that is a collection of Dragon material.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Beltendu

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 02:32:16 PM »
Bah, you ninja'd me by a second ... :)  Thanks though ... :)

Shadowhunter

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 03:34:04 PM »
3rd party Legends and Lair have some book which have a pretty kickass force-based mage.

Adds a lot of stuff to spells with the [Force] descriptor, which naturally include Magic Missile.


Force Missile Mage is in Dragon Compendium 1
[Spoiler]
Quote from: Runestar
the most effective optimization is the one you can actually get away with.  :smirk

Quote from: Vinom
(A group of nerds are called a murder because like crows we are anti-social, like shiny things, and often squack at each other over nothing for hours)

I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/quote]
[/spoiler]

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Beltendu

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 04:29:07 PM »
Sweet, thanks!  Might have to pick me up a copy.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 04:32:55 PM »
3rd party Legends and Lair have some book which have a pretty kickass force-based mage.

Adds a lot of stuff to spells with the [Force] descriptor, which naturally include Magic Missile.


Force Missile Mage is in Dragon Compendium 1
Book is Path of Magic, it is 3.0 though. Class is force weaver and it is crazy fun to play, we actually have it and i was able to play one before. Walking thought walls of force is a good way to tell the wizard you win.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Phoenix00

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 11:29:50 PM »
knowledge devotion

power attack+iron will+lady's gambit

empower

twin

energy admixture

Anklebite

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2010, 11:31:45 PM »
knowledge devotion

power attack+iron will+lady's gambit
...how are these relevant?  ???
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Prime32

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2010, 11:39:18 PM »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Anklebite

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2010, 11:40:45 PM »
knowledge devotion

power attack+iron will+lady's gambit
...how are these relevant?  ???
Prereqs.
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Lady~s_Gambit
huh, didn't realize how open ended lady's gambit was. nevermind, carry on.
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wotmaniac

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2010, 09:09:14 AM »
Okay, I've done quite a bit of updating to the OP, and decided to make this an all-out challenge (see the OP for details).

@McPoyo -- would you mind making the necessary adjustments for the purposes of the challenge?  :D  (if it's too much trouble, that's okay)

So, I've gone ahead and dove all-in to this:


Maximilian's Missile Maelstrom ("no magic items" ; direct damage)
CE Human Cleric* 1/Focused Evoker 5/Force Missile Mage 5/War Mage 5/Icantatrix 1/Hierophant 3
banned schools: enchantment, illusion, conjuration, necromancy (thanks Icantatrix)
domains: undeath, war   *no god -- using the "devoted to a cause" option
Attributes: str:8 ; dex:8 ; con:10 ; int:18 ; wis:8 ; cha:20
Feats:
H Iron Will
1 Combat Casting
1B Extra Turning (undeath domain)
1B weapon focus (flail) (war domain)
3 Eschew Materials
6 Alternative Spell Source
6B Quicken Spell (wizard)
9 Residual MM
12 Arcane Thesis (magic missile)
13B Empower Spell (WM)
15  DMM - Empower
15B Maximize Spell (WM)
17B Twin Spell (Icantatrix)
18 DMM - Twin
18B Energy Substitution (xxx) (Hierophant)
19B Energy Admixture (Hierophant)
20B Repeat Spell (Hierophant)

Round 1: quickened magic missile.  residual mm will let quicken apply to the next round.
Round 2: using DMM (twin , empower), Max can spend all 12 of his turning attempts to apply both twin and empower to both castings of magic missile this round.
Battle Magic + Empower + Maximize + Admixture = 24 damage/missile
FMM + Twin + Repeat = 28 missiles/casting + quicken = 52 missiles
Total Damage = 1248

skydragonknight pointed out that by changing "cleric" to "cloistered cleric", this could build could add "knowledge devotion" for extra damage; however, I'd feel bad for doing so, so I'll give him the credit for doing so:
damage per missile: 38
total damage: 1976

I've got some other ideas, but this one will do for now.


I'll be updating the OP as needed.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2010, 10:52:48 PM by wotmaniac »

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

Vicerious

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2010, 12:29:20 PM »
Complete Divine's errata stipulates that DMM can only be applied to divine spells.  If you want to DMM the hell out of Magic Missile, you're going to need the Force domain, for example.
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wotmaniac

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2010, 12:50:17 PM »
Complete Divine's errata stipulates that DMM can only be applied to divine spells.  If you want to DMM the hell out of Magic Missile, you're going to need the Force domain, for example.
that's what "alternative spell source" is for.  ;)

The example given in the feat is a cleric1/wiz6 casting a divine fireball (albeit as a 5th level wiz; but no worries -- I've got caster-level covered).

Which, BTW, is also how I qualified for Hierophant.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 12:53:39 PM by wotmaniac »

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.

Anklebite

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2010, 12:55:30 PM »
problem: doesn't alternate source spell then invalidate arcane thesis? or is the does it just require an arcane caster level, and not an arcane spell?
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wotmaniac

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Re: Magic Missile Optimization
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2010, 01:08:59 PM »
problem: doesn't alternate source spell then invalidate arcane thesis? or is the does it just require an arcane caster level, and not an arcane spell?
by the way that I read it, the 2 feats should work independently of each other.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 01:10:34 PM by wotmaniac »

[spoiler]
If you stop ignoring 289 pages telling what the intent is to stretch "more power" in your own god complexion of your interpretation trumps all to cover ability adjustments from aging then I will ignore a quarter page of rules that exist within a sidebar.
I think in this case the grammar is less important than whether the Str and Dex bonus provided to your created undead scales.

Greenbound Summoning RAI
Expanded Gestalt
More Savage Progressions[/spoiler]
Report any wrongs I have done here.