Looking for some help from Experienced Clerics: KotR/ED

[Nihilus]

Hey guys, so I just started playing D&D 3.5 a few weeks ago.

So I started out a build that can be found here:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.80
under "Super Holy Warrior"
I'll paste it here:

"Super Holy Warrior

Illumian(CG)
sigils:
Krau(+1/ sigil to Caster lvl)
Naen(+1/ sigil to Int skills and Int checks)


Patron:
Lirr(CD) Chaos, Good, Knowledge, Magic, Travel

Domains: Knowledge,Travel Sun

Warlock 1/ Cleric 4/ Eldritch Disciple 8/ Knight of the Raven 7

BAB +16
17th lvl Cleric(20th lvl Divine Caster... without items)
9th lvl Spells
17th lvl Cleric Turning

9th lvl Warlock powers( 3 least, 2 lesser, 5d6 EB)
least:
Eldritch Glaive .........5d6 Melee touch attacks
Beguiling Influence....+6 Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate
All Seeing Eyes.........+6 Search, Spot, and Continuous Comprehend Languages

Lesser:
Flee the Scene ........ Dimension Door and Invisible
Fell Flight................ 24 hour Flight

Eldritch Disciple:
Gift of the Divine: Healing Blast...heal @ range with EB
Gift of the Divine: Protective Aura .. Magic Circle
Gift of the Divine: Wild Frenzy .... +2 Attack and Damage with Weapons or EB

Feats: ....could be any

Enhanced Power Sigil........ need for skill and CL boost
Combat Reflexes
Summon Elemental(reserve) ...... want this one
Knowledge Devotion(domain) ..... want this one
Open Feat .....ConfusedConfused?
Touch of Healing(reserve)
Robilars Gambit

or could do DMM(Persistant) ... like this:

Enhanced Power Sigil
Extend Spell
Persistant Spell
Divine Metamagic(Persistant)
Summon Elemental(reserve)
Knowledge Devotion(domain)
Open Feat ......Confused?? "


I am taking the DMM road here.
So I am thinking of just trading in my knowledge domain for the devotion feat, freeing up 2 spots on my feats list.
But besides that, I have followed this build absolutely.

Here are my stats:
STR 9
Dex 8
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 16
Cha 15

I am currently at lvl 7. I know I have crap physical stats, is there anything I should do to alleviate this problem?
Is there some sort of weapon I should use to augment my strength or should i focus on casting?
This is my first time going through a campaign, so I have a lot to ask.
Are there any pieces of equipment that are highly recommended for me? (Armor, weapons, enhancements, gloves, etc.)
My party is comprised of me (cleric), bard, warblade, monk


So from my understanding, here's how I use this build.
I can cast a spell to help with knowledge checks and use my knowledge devotion feat to gain +Atk and +Damage.
I can heal up my friends if need be, but I will usually be busy kicking a** with Eldritch Glaive and DMM: Persistant Divine Power at lower levels. Besides this, I am pretty stumped with what I should cast and use in combat.

So this past week, we were going through a dungeon, and I must say, I felt really lack luster in combat. I have been putting some serious research into this game, yet my friends warblade just completely outshines me. I want to find a way in which I can show a little more combat prowess.
Not only that, but i have been pestering the DM to allow me to use the Knight of the Raven and the Eldritch Disciple PrC's. Well, apparently he is on a huge power trip. So, to spite me, he made obnoxiously powerful PrC's for the rest of the group. (+10BAB by 5th lvl, +20 to STR 2-10x a day depending on lvl, Spell casting (for anyone!), more really obnoxious stuff). But he is a beginner DM, so I am sure there are finer points of D&D that I can use to show my worth in the party in and out of combat. (And to get back at him for trying to make me the worst 

So, what can I do with the powers bestowed onto me to still kick ass even though he gives these guys such a cheestastic PrC? I want to be able to really use the Knight of the Raven, Eldritch Disciple, and Cleric to the highest degree. And since the DM would rather focus on getting back at me (for wanting to do a certain PrC! really?!)  and threw balance out the window, take no hesitation to tell me about broken (or particularly) feats, spells, combos, etc. I mean, he is literally trying to punish me, so I would like to give him a big F U!!!! by showing him why clerics are up top and still outshine what creations he made.

So with that outlined, I would like to also ask about how reserve feats work. I dont really get the concept.


Questions on for combat/spells:
Are there any other useful buffs that are just as good or better? (This is important)
- What are the best spells to DMM: Persist?
- What are other really useful combat spells?
- Also, for Eldritch Blast, how do the mechanics of the move work? I know i can cast it an unlimited amount of times, but do I add my Str Bonus to it? Or do I add Wisdom to damage and attacks? is there a penalty for distance?
- How does Miracle: Giant size work? I don't see giant size anywhere, is there a way to cast this consistently?
- Should I invest in Robilar's gambit? It looks like a cool feat, but I will need some +Dex equipment or something. I have two open feat spots, so if there is something that will fit my character better, please say so.
- What are some of the staple items that are helpful for every campaign? What are some staple cleric items?


On a side note,
my friend is a Warblade, and he has some pretty ridiculous stuff, like his stances and maneuvers. One of which does something like 12d6 of damage (WTF?). Is there something I'm missing? I'm sure he has to pick which ones he learns somehow, and he has to have some sort of limit to the amount of times he can do this, right? I don't know, like I said, I just started D&D, so I'm sure he is doing something wrong with that.


tl;dr: I am taking the Super Holy Warrior Build and I want to be an ABSOLUTE beast, NO RESTRICTIONS, please help me in doing so!

Thanks for the help in advance!
I put a lot of time and energy into this game, so please be elaborate with your replies, it will be very, very appreciated.

[Anklebite]

the +12d6 maneuver is ancient mountain hammer from stone dragon, likely. it also ignores DR and hardness.

as for feats, open up races of destiny and look at the illumian feats. one of them is basically DMM: everything.

[Nihilus]

I looked it up, and I didn't see anything close to DMM: everything
Are you sure that there is a feat like that, could you check up on that again? I am very interested.

So i have two extra feats, does the rombilar's gambit path seem like a good fit?

Any answers to any of these questions would be really, really great.
So if you know the answer to even one, it would be nice to get some help (especially for the questions in the OP)

So I'm going to get some items, I have about 12K for me specifically.
What sort of armor/items should i get?

Also, whats the use of getting the lesser invocations as a warlock, when  I have travel domain spells to do the same exact thing?

[Anklebite]

I looked it up, and I didn't see anything close to DMM: everything
Are you sure that there is a feat like that, could you check up on that again? I am very interested.

So i have two extra feats, does the rombilar's gambit path seem like a good fit?

Any answers to any of these questions would be really, really great.
So if you know the answer to even one, it would be nice to get some help (especially for the questions in the OP)

So I'm going to get some items, I have about 12K for me specifically.
What sort of armor/items should i get?

Also, whats the use of getting the lesser invocations as a warlock, when  I have travel domain spells to do the same exact thing?

it's a feat or something to do with the illumian sigils that let you power metamagic with turning attempts.

[Bloody Initiate]

The Illumian DMM thing is in their racial description in their sigils. I don't know exactly which one, but it's in there.

Your build is mostly fine, but it looks to me like you're expecting too much too early. You're 7th level and you've only just received 3rd level spells. Builds take time to come into their own (Something people around here prefer to forget) and you don't start out playing the game like you'll play at lvl 20. You can't start persisting really good buffs yet and you will NEED to persist good buffs to offset your admittedly weak physical stats.

Until you get 4th level spells in two more levels (Divine Power is key) then you need to hang back and focus on support and a little control. It's not the most entertaining job in the world, but at your level you need to focus on survival. Survive long enough and your build will eventually take care of itself.

Don't try to compete with the Warblade for melee, that's his job for now (Eventually you'll outshine him if you persist enough powerful buffs, but competing with your fellow players doesn't actually help the party). Later on he'll have to get a bit more tactical and your character will practically play itself. As for whether he's doing stuff correctly, Warblades can execute their most powerful maneuvers every other round. He will not have Ancient Mountain Hammer yet (That's the 12d6 that ignores DR and Hardness) if he's the same level as you, but he may not be using that specific maneuver (There are several other ways to get 12d6 by level 7 using Tome of Battle (ToB), Ancient Mountain Hammer isn't available til a higher level).

Equipment recommendations: Chausuble of Fell Power (Complete Arcane) to boost your EB damage, any and all AC/Save/Survivability boosters, anything that gives you more turn attempts. Later your character will depend on having lots of turn attempts, so get them early.

There is, btw, a big problem with having neither strength nor dex. This means you can't hit with a ranged Eldritch Blast and you can't hit with an Eldritch Glaive. Until you get Divine Power (Only two levels away) expect to miss a LOT. Stay out of melee, and don't fire at anything that can get to you before your tank can stop it. You don't have enough spells to use them as a primary attack form, so just focus on support for a couple more levels. Healing, buffing, controlling, utility. Direct attacks will usually fail or worse, succeed and get the enemies to go after you.

[Nihilus]

[Bloody Initiate]

You shouldn't even be persisting buffs at your level. I did not say you CAN compete with the Warblade by persisting buffs, but that you WILL be able to. My point is that you have a build, which is good, but you are level 7 and builds do not start working usually until lvl 10+

You have only third level spells, most of which are not worth persisting. Healing and Buffing ARE boring, but so is being a low level cleric (You're actually mid-level, but your cleric casting is low-level).

Control spells are any that affect the battelfield in a way that is disabling for your enemies and/or favorable for your allies. Clerics actually don't get as many of these as most arcane casters, but can access some nice ones through domains.

Utility spells are just spells that don't affect anything directly (other than yourself) but tend to be immensely useful anyway. Most teleportation spells are utility as are most of the spells that make your party's life outside of combat easier.
There is no problem between Full Plate and gauntlets. Full Plate occupies your body slot (No matter what the illustration suggests) and gauntlets occupy your hand slot.

[Anklebite]

You shouldn't even be persisting buffs at your level.

I have persisted spells on a lvl1 cleric. it isn't that hard. shield of faith helps alot at lvl1, as does divine favor.

[Bloody Initiate]

You shouldn't even be persisting buffs at your level.

I have persisted spells on a lvl1 cleric. it isn't that hard. shield of faith helps alot at lvl1, as does divine favor.

I know it's POSSIBLE, but just because you can do something doesn't mean should. If he wants to persist buffs at his level he can do whatever he likes, I just felt like the spell slots and turn attempts could be more useful elsewhere.

Incorporeal undead, for example, can be extremely challenging to a low level group whose cleric has wasted their turn attempts persisting unworthy buffs. The same group with a more economic cleric will get a healthy experience boost.

My group is currently going through the Fortress of the Yuan-Ti (Not especially undead-centric, but possesses a fair amount of undead for any campaign). There is a particular incorporeal undead that forced us to flee when we first encountered it because our cleric was away. Then our cleric came back, we went back, and got an exceptional amount of experience for our level.

Could she have instead enjoyed +2 to saves all day and a neat but SMALL luck bonus? Yes. Would we have defeated that undead? No. At lower levels a mildly optimized cleric can drastically speed up a game and end entire encounters alone because of turn undead. That ends up equalling a lot of saved time and a lot of potentially life-threatening encounters (Because all encounters are life-threatening at lower levels) avoided. It doesn't matter that you can just retreat and regain your turn attempts if you made a bad choice that day, what matters is having what you need when you need it.

Lower level characters are weaker. It's a fact. Even if you can build a monster, they still only have a few hit dice. Clerics are boring at lower levels if you don't like playing a support character, so you suffer through it until you become a monster or you don't play a cleric.

[Anklebite]

human cleric1 with undeath and planning domains
feats: persist spell, DMM persist

turning attempts per day: 7+cha

that's with no flaws. the cleric has cha turning attempts per day after persisting one spell.

with 1 flaw:  11+cha turning attempts per day; either 4+cha remaining, or zero in the case of having exactly 16 charisma and one flaw.

with 2 flaws: 15+cha turning attempts per day; either 1+cha remaining, assuming charisma is less than 22. 

no DMM cleric would have less than 10 charisma; they tend to have 14-16, depending on points buy/rolls.

[Bloody Initiate]

human cleric1 with undeath and planning domains
feats: persist spell, DMM persist

turning attempts per day: 7+cha

that's with no flaws. the cleric has cha turning attempts per day after persisting one spell.

with 1 flaw:  11+cha turning attempts per day; either 4+cha remaining, or zero in the case of having exactly 16 charisma and one flaw.

with 2 flaws: 15+cha turning attempts per day; either 1+cha remaining, assuming charisma is less than 22. 

no DMM cleric would have less than 10 charisma; they tend to have 14-16, depending on points buy/rolls.

Again, I never said you couldn't do it. I said it mostly wasn't worth it.

That cleric you show, assume 16 charisma, has to roll better than a 6 on the d20 roll to turn any undead at all, and must roll a 19 to turn 5 hit dice of undead. The low level cleric often has to spend multiple turn attempts to turn anything.

But like I said, I know you CAN do it, and if you want go for it. I just don't, and usually don't think other people should.

[Anklebite]

human cleric1 with undeath and planning domains
feats: persist spell, DMM persist

turning attempts per day: 7+cha

that's with no flaws. the cleric has cha turning attempts per day after persisting one spell.

with 1 flaw:  11+cha turning attempts per day; either 4+cha remaining, or zero in the case of having exactly 16 charisma and one flaw.

with 2 flaws: 15+cha turning attempts per day; either 1+cha remaining, assuming charisma is less than 22. 

no DMM cleric would have less than 10 charisma; they tend to have 14-16, depending on points buy/rolls.

Again, I never said you couldn't do it. I said it mostly wasn't worth it.

That cleric you show, assume 16 charisma, has to roll better than a 6 on the d20 roll to turn any undead at all, and must roll a 19 to turn 5 hit dice of undead. The low level cleric often has to spend multiple turn attempts to turn anything.

But like I said, I know you CAN do it, and if you want go for it. I just don't, and usually don't think other people should.

I personally find it worth it to have one spell persisted. but, then again, we are in opinion territory now. 

[Bloody Initiate]

human cleric1 with undeath and planning domains
feats: persist spell, DMM persist

turning attempts per day: 7+cha

that's with no flaws. the cleric has cha turning attempts per day after persisting one spell.

with 1 flaw:  11+cha turning attempts per day; either 4+cha remaining, or zero in the case of having exactly 16 charisma and one flaw.

with 2 flaws: 15+cha turning attempts per day; either 1+cha remaining, assuming charisma is less than 22. 

no DMM cleric would have less than 10 charisma; they tend to have 14-16, depending on points buy/rolls.

Again, I never said you couldn't do it. I said it mostly wasn't worth it.

That cleric you show, assume 16 charisma, has to roll better than a 6 on the d20 roll to turn any undead at all, and must roll a 19 to turn 5 hit dice of undead. The low level cleric often has to spend multiple turn attempts to turn anything.

But like I said, I know you CAN do it, and if you want go for it. I just don't, and usually don't think other people should.

I personally find it worth it to have one spell persisted. but, then again, we are in opinion territory now. 

I actually agree, but Nihilus didn't necessarily take the domains or flaws you did so I tend to be cautious with the advice I give. If you have the turn attempts for it, there are definitely good candidates for persist in the third level list. It's just that the AMAZING candidates aren't until later, and I like things to be amazing.

[Nihilus]

Hey guys, thanks for all the advice and all.
So through your guys' help and some research, here are some of the important questions that still need to be answered please.

-Okay, so what are the important spells for me to persist, i mean, there are buffs if i want to compete with my warblade (divine power, miracle: giant size, any other buffs/magic weapons and such?), or I can can take the utility/control/ more classic cleric route and persist what? (you said it helps the party more if i persist other things) This is for the future when i can cast good persistable spells.

- How does Miracle: Giant size work? I don't see giant size anywhere, is there a way to cast this consistently? On that note, how does it giant size work? (for dmg, etc.)

-What weapon would be most beneficial to me? (i know morningstar is probably the best type, but what type of morningstar) are there weapons that can boost my stats like in KOTOR?

- Should I invest in Robilar's gambit? It looks like a cool feat, but I will need some +Dex equipment or something. I have two open feat spots, so if there is something that will fit my character better, please say so.

- What are some of the staple items that are helpful for every campaign? What are some staple cleric items?

-Is there a way to add another power sigil?

-Okay, Spellcraft is supposed to be the most important Skill for me to learn, why?

-Do my cleric, KotR, and ED turn attempts stack? (for a total of 15)

[Bloody Initiate]

I don't know what this "Giant Size" you're talking about is. Once you get 5th level spells you're going to be persisting "Righteous Might" which will increase your size to Large.

Your turn attempts from different classes generally don't stack. You get 3 + your Charisma + everything else that adds turn attempts other than other classes.

[Havok4]

Giant size is from complete arcane, it is really quite good, you should take a look at it.

[BruceLeeroy]

See if you can get darkfire(SpC) to stack with the damage from your Eldritch Glaive. It works with some DMs.

Right now, with those stats, you're stuck at the back of the group trying to stay alive. At level 4 spells, things change considerably. Until then, keep your head low and buff the group. Think long term strategy.

Edit: Ring of Blades from the SpC is a good spell if your group tends to fight a lot of weaker enemies, as opposed to a single powerful foe.

[Nihilus]

Alright guys I’m going to need some serious help
My dm is going through a MAJOR power trip.
He gave all my teammates straight-up broken, completely made up
PrCs. If I can get my hands on them, I’ll show you how broken they are.
Two of my friends got the same prestige class, where they get a + 14 to STR 1-5 times a day  (depending on their prestige lvl, which doesn’t level up through experience, so they get this prestige for free basically.)  They get a 5th level spell from ANY list. Although they probably won’t use this to their advantage, we are still level 7 going on 9 for the next session. They also get permanent bonuses to Cha and any other stat. (for a total of +2-3 ability points)
Oh, did I mention the weapons he gave them? A sword that gives +5 BAB, deals 2d10, 1d6 vampiric, 1d4 of poison for 4 rounds.
But I digress, there are more things he gave to these guys crazy stuff, and what do I get?
Basically a helm is basically +4 belt of magnificence, but if I use it, I have a 50% chance to not be able to talk for the day. We were offered this or other items earlier, but then he said we could have gotten the curses removed. Now that I got it, guess what? The strongest wizard in the entire city can’t remove the curses. Oh, and after that, he says that the helm isn’t as strong without the rest of the armor, but he failed to remention this when I casted Identify. (can he do that? Really? I mean the effect should be clearly stated when I casted identify.)
So he gives them all of these great items and abilities for free, and they buy some loot, but then he makes everything extremely expensive for me. He doesn’t go by the book at all. (a 6,000 wand of cure light wounds with only 30 charges AFTER we look all over town)
He is seriously trying to nerf me before I even get good, so when I do get good, I am still below average in comparison.
Have any of you guys run into this problem before? Is there a thread that is based on DM’s going power crazy? If not, where in these boards can I start one?
He also makes snide remarks to everything I say, especially when I go to the books, like “deal with it” or “suck it” or something extremely rude and unnecessary.
I don’t know what to do fellas, I really like this game, its new and exciting and I wait all week for it, but when I finally get to play, I get this bull crap? Help?

-On a side note, does greater magical weapon work on Eldritch glaive?
-What spells should I be persisting (throughout my levels; currently 9)
-And for the stacking of turn undead: Turn/Rebuke Undead: Your eldritch disciple level stacks with your other class levels for the purpose of determining your ability to turn or rebuke undead.
-Is there a way to consistently cast Miracle: Giant size?
-2 extra feats, what should they be guys? (rombilars gambit route?)



Is there a way to change my name in this forum?

[PhaedrusXY]

Find a new DM. Preferably one that isn't a complete dickhead.

[Anklebite]

Find a new DM. Preferably one that isn't a complete dickhead.

failing that, ask kevin_video.