Author Topic: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...  (Read 5015 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LargePrime

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« on: March 25, 2010, 02:22:48 PM »
I am Looking to play my first Play by Post.  It is a Level 6 Gestalt.  42Point buy. Full hp.
To sum up we are part of a spy organization.
At first I am thinking Art6/Rogue1Factoum3Mindbender1Chamelon1 cause seeing things and their Intelligence and TYPE is handy (and useful with bane).  Bufficer focus on the ART side (extend and persistent), cause DM stormcrow suggests it might be hard to say alive.  Item Familiar and Leadership were also considered.

Then TML has this link on the ghost progression sigged.  Now I do not want 5 levels of this, but there is a ton of cheese in a one level dip.  All HD D12, no con, incorporeal, see ethereal and fly?  This is very Gouda!

So questions for you all...
1) Can one dip savage progressions?
2) Is a one level dip into Ghost kinda wrong for the game I am looking at?
3) Is Character incorporeality a problem in game?  I PMed TML about this and was pointed at Ghostly Grasp feat (LMortis) and Full Manifestation (ghostwalk).  Magic items like Living Mask and Ring of Manifesting (Ghostwalk) seem to work.
4) Other Builds for an Artificer?

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 02:27:29 PM »
I'm pretty sure they specify that for those savage progressions, you don't have to take the whole thing. I'd also think that a ghost would make a fantastic spy, and the organization would be smart to try and recruit one. I'm sure there will be a few problems with incorporeality, but probably nothing insurmountable. I'd suspect that being a self-buffing gish would be less effective, though, as don't you also lose your strength score?
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

LargePrime

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 02:37:26 PM »
I'm pretty sure they specify that for those savage progressions, you don't have to take the whole thing. I'd also think that a ghost would make a fantastic spy, and the organization would be smart to try and recruit one. I'm sure there will be a few problems with incorporeality, but probably nothing insurmountable. I'd suspect that being a self-buffing gish would be less effective, though, as don't you also lose your strength score?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a
You are correct.  One can dip.  Thank you.
I relooked over the savage progression.  One looses Con, but does not mention strength.  Am I missing something?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 02:46:12 PM by LargePrime »

Anklebite

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2009
  • I shall play you the song of my people.
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 02:53:30 PM »
I'm pretty sure they specify that for those savage progressions, you don't have to take the whole thing. I'd also think that a ghost would make a fantastic spy, and the organization would be smart to try and recruit one. I'm sure there will be a few problems with incorporeality, but probably nothing insurmountable. I'd suspect that being a self-buffing gish would be less effective, though, as don't you also lose your strength score?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a
You are correct.  One can dip.  Thank you.
I relooked over the savage progression.  One looses Con, but does not mention strength.  Am I missing something?
incorporeal.
I do not suffer from paranoia; I enjoy every second of it.
Pioneer of the Ultimate Magus + Sublime Chord + Ultimate Magus combo

Garryl

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1240
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 03:17:44 PM »
I'm pretty sure they specify that for those savage progressions, you don't have to take the whole thing. I'd also think that a ghost would make a fantastic spy, and the organization would be smart to try and recruit one. I'm sure there will be a few problems with incorporeality, but probably nothing insurmountable. I'd suspect that being a self-buffing gish would be less effective, though, as don't you also lose your strength score?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a
You are correct.  One can dip.  Thank you.
I relooked over the savage progression.  One looses Con, but does not mention strength.  Am I missing something?
incorporeal.

Technically, you keep your Strength score while not manifesting, as you are corporeal on the Ethereal plane. If you ever use Plane Shift or similar spells to move to another plane, you won't be incorporeal and thus can keep your Strength. Unless you Plane Shift your incorporeal Manifestation of you, that is, but I think the rules get a bit kooky at that point.
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 03:19:31 PM »

Technically, you keep your Strength score while not manifesting, as you are corporeal on the Ethereal plane. If you ever use Plane Shift or similar spells to move to another plane, you won't be incorporeal and thus can keep your Strength. Unless you Plane Shift your incorporeal Manifestation of you, that is, but I think the rules get a bit kooky at that point.

And bags of holding are really kooky.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 03:29:37 PM »

Technically, you keep your Strength score while not manifesting, as you are corporeal on the Ethereal plane. If you ever use Plane Shift or similar spells to move to another plane, you won't be incorporeal and thus can keep your Strength. Unless you Plane Shift your incorporeal Manifestation of you, that is, but I think the rules get a bit kooky at that point.

And bags of holding are really kooky.
Yes, but if he wants to actually benefit from being incorporeal, instead of doing something weird like plane shifting his ethereal body to the prime, he effectively has no strength score. Right?
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

LargePrime

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 03:29:53 PM »
I'm pretty sure they specify that for those savage progressions, you don't have to take the whole thing. I'd also think that a ghost would make a fantastic spy, and the organization would be smart to try and recruit one. I'm sure there will be a few problems with incorporeality, but probably nothing insurmountable. I'd suspect that being a self-buffing gish would be less effective, though, as don't you also lose your strength score?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a
You are correct.  One can dip.  Thank you.
I relooked over the savage progression.  One looses Con, but does not mention strength.  Am I missing something?
incorporeal.
Oddly enough the savage progression does not grant the incorporeal subtype, but still lets you be incorporeal.

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 03:33:14 PM »
You have the subtype as long as you're manifested.  Ghost stats given assume manifestation is on.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

LargePrime

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 03:40:53 PM »
Ghostwalk suggests that if an incorporeal ghost is "Fully Manifested" (recorporeal on the material plane) you use your strength score.

EDIT it seems Ghost walk has it's own ghost template, which retains con and strength.  It as no strength when incorporeal, but does when fully manifested.  So it's a little different than a typical ghost.

So does this make strength a dump stat, and the three levels of factotum rather handy (int to dex and str)?  Can I use this to work a strength bow?

« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 04:00:21 PM by LargePrime »

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 03:58:32 PM »
Ghostwalk is pretty much a setting book with areas locations that completely revamp the ghost rules.

Also, it has the lamest afterlife of any campaign setting.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

LargePrime

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 05:40:44 PM »
Ghostwalk is pretty much a setting book with areas locations that completely revamp the ghost rules.

Also, it has the lamest afterlife of any campaign setting.
So if we through out Ghostwalk, is it any good, or would an Artificer/Psion be better?

Paradox

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • Email
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2010, 06:42:18 PM »
Ghostwalk is pretty much a setting book with areas locations that completely revamp the ghost rules.

Also, it has the lamest afterlife of any campaign setting.

pfft
Typical philistine opinion  :cheers

awaken DM golem

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3294
  • PAO'd my Avatar
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2010, 06:45:02 PM »
3 different classes with Trapfinding, isn't helpful.

Artificer 6 // Ghost Progression 5 / thematic PrC 1

I'll drink to that.

Hijax

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 646
  • Kobolds ate my cookies
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2010, 06:46:50 PM »
Ghostwalk is pretty much a setting book with areas locations that completely revamp the ghost rules.

Also, it has the lamest afterlife of any campaign setting.

i dont own the book. enlighten me.
"There's more to apocalypse than running around like a maniac you know"
-B. M. Evilwizardington.
blogging at disasters made in china

LargePrime

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2010, 07:05:32 PM »
3 different classes with Trapfinding, isn't helpful.

Artificer 6 // Ghost Progression 5 / thematic PrC 1

I'll drink to that.
Factotum gets me into Mindbender which gets me mindsight.  Which goes very well with Weapon Augmentation Personal (bane), as I always know the monster type, not to mention seeing all the BBE(G)G.

Aren't that last two levels of Ghost rather weak?  Even 3 is kinda Meh, but grants rejuvenation.  L2 grants telekineses, as a 12th level caster, which rocks, but I dont know if it is worth a level.

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2010, 07:08:32 PM »
L2 grants telekineses, as a 12th level caster, which rocks, but I dont know if it is worth a level.
Holy crap, are you kidding? That's your ability to bash the crap out of people right there. "Carry" around a dozen greatswords, dump them out of your bag of holding at the start of combat, and go to town.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

LargePrime

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2010, 07:43:17 PM »
I am not saying it sucks, it is just that I can have that in a magic item for gold, which is cheap.  I am thinking Levels should do things gold mostly can't.

I am not sure the Items a ghost carries can be used in the way you describe, unless I can overcome this incorporeal thing.

Havok4

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2144
  • It can only be attributable to human error.
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2010, 08:41:57 PM »

I am not sure the Items a ghost carries can be used in the way you describe, unless I can overcome this incorporeal thing.

Libris Mortis has the feat ghostly grasp which lets ghosts use items normally.

LargePrime

  • Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
Re: Should my Artificer be a Ghost? Optimize me Please...
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2010, 09:57:28 PM »

I am not sure the Items a ghost carries can be used in the way you describe, unless I can overcome this incorporeal thing.

Libris Mortis has the feat ghostly grasp which lets ghosts use items normally.
I mentioned this in the first post.  I like this feat as I can stay incorporeal and interact with stuff as if I wasn't.  "You can wear, wield, and otherwise use corporeal
items as though you were not incorporeal."

But does this mean I can trigger traps, or trigger traps and not feel the effects?  If it cuts both ways, and I cant pass for human, I think the Full Manifestation or Ring of Manifestation are better.  If I retain my incorpreal immunities, then it rocks.