Author Topic: Battle Sorcerer's Tier  (Read 2531 times)

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Battle Sorcerer's Tier
« on: March 17, 2010, 05:23:46 PM »
Would the Battle Sorcerer variant be a Tier 2 class like the Regular Sorcerer or a Tier 3 Class do the limited spells known?
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juton

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Re: Battle Sorcerer's Tier
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 05:25:19 PM »
It's been brought up many times. They're Tier 2, they can still break the game, it's just the number of ways they can do it is limited.

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Re: Battle Sorcerer's Tier
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 05:28:03 PM »
Would the Battle Sorcerer variant be a Tier 2 class like the Regular Sorcerer or a Tier 3 Class do the limited spells known?

In general, any class with 9th level spell progression and a flexible spells known list (basically any class that lets you pick two or more spells known/class level, so Beguiler and Dread Necromancer wouldn't count) is considered Tier 2 material. The exceptions are home brew.

Classes with a set spell list and limited access to learning new ones are usually Tier 3 (Dread Necro, Beguiler) or lower (Warmage, Healer).

Edit: Improved BAB isn't worth that many spells known. TT is a single 6th level spell, Shapechange can give Full BAB, and Divine Power is granted by at least two Domains (so Arcane Disciple)


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Re: Battle Sorcerer's Tier
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2010, 06:04:54 PM »
So if I got rid of the cheese spells from the list, which is kind of a given anyways, and lower the spell known progression to be like Beguiler and Dread Necro, would that make it Tier 3?
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Battle Sorcerer's Tier
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2010, 06:09:26 PM »
So if I got rid of the cheese spells from the list, which is kind of a given anyways, and lower the spell known progression to be like Beguiler and Dread Necro, would that make it Tier 3?

The cheese spells are everywhere, which is the other problem: There's too many damn spells. If they had a set spell list akin to the Beguiler, they would be Tier 3 if it were balanced carefully and not filled with random blasting spells. It would still be very potent, but the lack of class features alters it a little. At least until PrCs are taken into account.


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JaronK

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Re: Battle Sorcerer's Tier
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2010, 06:12:12 PM »
So if I got rid of the cheese spells from the list, which is kind of a given anyways, and lower the spell known progression to be like Beguiler and Dread Necro, would that make it Tier 3?

It's T2 to start with (that's why it's not listed separately).  But here's the thing about T2... they have the broken power of T1, but they're often less flexible than T3.  Removing the cheese spells could have drastic effects depending on your definition of cheese.  Removing some of the most broken spells (Genesis, Planar Binding, Shapechange) would keep them T2.  Removing most of the overpowered spells could easily drop then to T4 or even T5  depending on your definition, because they need their spells to be more powerful than the T3 casters.  After all, if the Beguiler has spells that are just as strong as the Sorcerer, then the Sorcerer is a Beguiler who loses all of the Beguiler's class features and skill points and has fewer spells known but slightly more difference in what those spells are.  Maybe even just a weaker version of a Warmage.  That's not going to be very strong at all.  So, this is a very difficult bit of house ruling to do correctly (unless you wanted them to be T4 or lower, in which case go nuts).

I'm not sure what you mean about "lower the spell known progression to be like Beguiler and Dread Necro."  Those guys have more spells known, not less.

JaronK

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Re: Battle Sorcerer's Tier
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2010, 06:41:46 PM »
Sorry, should be 'adjust' not 'lower'.

But yes, IC. I thought as much. just wanted to see what I can do to bring the power of the class variant to T3 status with minimum effort. Though those pesky spells will always be a bane to that.

But cool, thanks for the help.
"Never beg, you earn, by winning,
or else you won't get anything..."