Author Topic: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant  (Read 17399 times)

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Endarire

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Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« on: March 15, 2010, 11:47:51 PM »
Practicality Is Not Evil
And I Shall Not Recant

There is no absolute morality, my animated quill wrote in my usual code, because there is no one sentient being to control all of reality.  Many factors contribute to a common morality, but the essence is ultimately this:

'Good' represents what is pleasing and understandable.  To the common folk, an angel is seen as holy and pleasant because of its 'beautiful' appearance and its tendency to sustain the common folk through healing, creating food, and driving away 'evil' or unpleasant things.  The mind of an angel emphasizes communal servitude and bolstering the weak.

These 'good' forces tend to be reactionary.  Because of a famine in the land, missionaries create food.  Because of perceived evil, mercenaries (often called 'adventurers') are hired ('brought in') to remove all sorts of ugly, alien threats, many of which are sentient.  These 'good' forces beat back demons, devils, fiends, bandits, Wizards, and seemingly every proactive force.

'Good' is often overt, only hiding itself as prudent.  A Paladin is often seen as a hero because he does something the common folk understand; uphold the law by physically killing, looting, and occasionally enslaving ugly, 'evil' creatures.

Long-term planners are viewed with suspicion.  If there is a benevolent divine force in the multiverse that perpetuates existence, it remains silent and mysterious.  While I doubt such a force exists, I cannot safely dismiss it.

'Good' is self-sacrificing on occasion; however, 'good' actions demand reason.  Even benevolent divine forces withdraw their power from 'wicked' Clerics and other servants.


I inhaled deeply and smiled as my quill continued.

Demons, devils, and fiends are seen as evil.  Their minds dwell on corruption, manipulation, and destruction.  They are powerful and feared, and in some places, revered.  A 'saint' killed by hellfire when battling a Balor is very similar or identical in effect to a 'vile one' who died by a Solar's 'purifying flame.'

What happens, however, if the orcs, goblins, gnolls, chromatic dragons, or whatever it is the typical Paladin seeks to eliminate are more than target practice?  What if most orcs have difficult lives and rebel against the established order because banditry is their specialty?  What if bugbears aspire to be great painters and poets and healers, yet circumstance and their society drive them to be mercenaries and thugs?

How long would a goblin or half-dragon of 'righteous' character be seen as an outcast in a typical human city?  How long would he survive?

Theoretically, a kobold Paladin exists.  Who would he slay to prove his holiness?  Would he forsake his brethren because they are seen as evil?  Would he seek revenge on the human society that raised or oppressed him?  Would he buy into human doctrines of righteousness?


I paused a moment to shake my head and sigh.

By my estimates, 'evil' should have won.  Ur-Priests steal power from the multiverse to cast divine spells far better than any Cleric.  Those that become Eunuch Warlocks can cast epic spells sooner than any non-kobold.  Believing in typical tales and views of civility and the volatility of their power, I forsook such options.  I may live to regret that decision.

Reanimating the dead- which I contend is NOT evil despite common perceptions- puts to work bodies that would otherwise go to waste in the ground.  (Their animation prevents their easy resurrection, helping ensure my enemies STAY dead.)  Nevermind the often-grotesque appearance and possibility to spread disease, their souls are free to collapse into the domains of their afterlives.  Are Druids jealous that their flora and fauna shant be nourished by a contingent of soldiers who became zombies, or annoyed that their wolf companions would be distracted by the walking chew toys of skeleton armies?  Are men in general envious that these beings are more useful in 'death' than their natural life?  More likely, it is the mystery of the dead and twisting the assumption that death puts to rest one's physical body that torments the masses.  'Adventurers' especially loathe the idea of losing their bodies, for returning them to life requires far more resources.

Instead of animating corpses, to what degree would robbing a living creature of its free will be seen as 'less evil?'  I could easily use spells to force others to see me more favorably.  Such requires less effort than reanimation!  I could make them my indefinite slaves, though that requires more effort than reanimation!  With a silver tongue, I could convince men of anything with no magical effort on my part.  How are these methods of finding allies more acceptable than reanimation?

Does society in general prefer one means of destruction?  If every inhabitant of a city is 'wicked' then is it better to die from hellfire or from 'purifying flame?'  What about legions of undead, or a dragon?  What if they were conscripted as slaves and sent off to internment camps for generations?  What if an Enchanter robbed all of them of their free will?

Despite my best intentions, I shall be seen as a villain.  As a Wizard, I am subtle in my actions and reform the multiverse in ways the common folk shall never understand.  For example, I do not believe in carelessly enslaving beings, especially through binding.  There is ALWAYS a price, now or later.  For my continued existence, I form business partnerships.  I assume any creature I bind will put forth every effort to betray me when I do not actively aid it.  Such is the nature of 'persuaded' service.

Yet a Wizard worth his spells thoroughly understands the value of preparation.  He uses long-term protection spells.  He negotiates with various organizations to ensure their cooperation.  When able, he has extraplanar contacts and bodyguards to preempt his fellow casters and any force considerable enough to be a threat.  He relies on divinations and his loyal scouts.  He plans for times when his magic fails him.  By which standard will I be punished for using my training and innate talents?

Worshipping a divine entity as a Wizard is discomforting.  Such an entity may be necessary for my survival; however, I may one day become his rival.  My continued existence is paramount, yet some things are better than life.  (Being robbed of my will or my soul are among them.)  While I do what is prudent to survive, many disagree with my methodology.  A prophet or god may cry, 'Repent!'  I quickly consider my strength and the dominion of my patron.  Unless odds are greatly against me, attacking me may provoke divine retribution.  Even gods must account for their actions.

Beings of power understand likely threats.  A typical commoner is no threat to me.  The reverse is quite false.  In contrast, a caster or being of similar caliber IS a threat.  My continued existence is due in large part to smart preparation, quick adaptation, self-reliance, coordination with my allies, and the far more fickle aspects of chance and perhaps being protected by some divine entity.

At a certain point, those who are able to leave the Prime Material Plane do so.  The multiverse is so vast that creatures powerful enough to stop a planar invasion are often elsewhere.  This may also explain the general lack of interplanar travel to enter or leave the Prime Material.  Some believe it is the deities and divine forces that repel invaders; however, consider this:

Assume there are benelovent divine forces- 'good deities'- that act in the commonly-perceived ways.  (Remember, 'good' is only defined by its difference from 'evil.')    Therefore, evil deities must also exist.  Assume also that these good deities believe reanimating the dead is evil.  How then do these good deities continue to exist?

If these good deities are so powerful as not to need legions of undead, why is evil so common?  (I believe it in large part because sentient beings are bastards by nature, if not necessity, but this trait is circumventable.)  Are these deities winning against 'evil' forces, yet spread so thin as not to be able to convert the hearts of men?  Are these deities so patient and forgiving as to let themselves be destroyed rather than bolster their defenses?  Is there some invisible grand scheme in place for long-term action?

If these 'good' deities need the extra power from an 'evil' source, then at least one of these is true:

-Reanimation is not evil.
-Good deities truly are not in control and may merely be a facade for evil forces.
-Good deities are hypocrites.
-Unknown factors- in general, what allows the rest of 'good' to exist- empower these deities.

Among the Infinite Layers of the Abyss, the Nine Hells of Baator, the Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia, and the Twin Paradises of Bytopia, one thing is common:  Each plane is infinite in size, yet I mentioned 9 heavenly realms versus the 9 hellish realms and infinite abyssal realms.  Considering how many more varieties of demons, devils, and fiends exist than angels, archons, and celestial creatures- even accounting for celestials generally being more individually powerful than fiends- my point expands in merit.  How 'good' is not simply snuffed out is a question I shall soon handle.

In many tales, unlikely and ill-equipped 'heroes' overcome overwhelming odds against 'evil' forces.  These tales, in large part, are propaganda.  The creation and spread of these tales is from beings who whole-heartedly desire to justify their way of life.  They believe ignorant men clinging to constricting ideals clad in pretty armor shall save them from a caster worth his spells, or a tyrannical mind-controlling government, or what amounts to Hell on the Material Plane.

Angels fall and demons rise.  The reality of the cosmos is far beyond the desire of the common man to understand.  He sees his farm, his town, his city, his country, and, gazing at the night sky, wonders what lies beyond his small realm of influence.  Then hunger strikes, bandits attack, children cry, lusts of the flesh ignite, and his ambition to grow beyond his comfort zone withers and collapses.

There is one theory I cannot fully prove nor disprove.  Perhaps it is the collective desire of so many common folk that causes existence to work this way.  Perhaps whatever forces created us- powerful and incomprehensible they remain to me- also have this subtle ability, and, wittingly or not, passed it to their creation.


My quill hovered over the page as I collected my thoughts.

This may explain why certain entities- genies especially- are able to alter reality on a whim.  Why every able caster worth his spells has not yet bound innumerable wish-granters to his service adds to the mystery of 'good' in the universe.  Perhaps this is commonplace, yet those who do so control what other beings perceive.

An elf is very similar to a human, gnome, or aasimar.  The primary difference is what form this being's power assumes, such as wizardry, druidism, or meat shieldhood.  Every entity desires power- if not now, then later- yet power never satisfies.  Even beings of great power are fallible, and thus attempt to distract themselves.  They may forge oaths to restrict their power and in so doing perhaps be seen as noble, or settle into complacent ways, or resign themselves to lusts of the flesh.

Those who embark on the path of power must remain vigilant, lest an apprentice off them when they stumble.

Ultimately, if I aim to please someone, I trust my patron's direction and accept his terms.


I smiled wide as I cracked my knuckles, sparks flying from them.  I knew I was determined, but for once in a long while, I felt a bit giddy.  I snapped my fingers and my quill resumed its writing.

Power?  Power is everything.  I shall wield it ere 'tis wielded against me.

[spoiler]And this is why I think alignment is overrated and 'evil' is the logical standard in D&D.  Optimize as you will.[/spoiler]
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2010, 01:05:29 AM »
Gabriel agrees wholeheartedly with your treatise, and might have a business proposition for you.  :smirk
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
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Solo

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2010, 01:15:41 AM »
Wizards are nerds who spend too much time writing pointless speculation on abstract matters and not enough time getting laid.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

KellKheraptis

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2010, 01:24:20 AM »
Wizards are nerds who spend too much time writing pointless speculation on abstract matters and not enough time getting laid.

My Master Spellthief and his 177 dominated harem of sorceresses disagrees with you :P

EDIT : Oh, and I agree wholeheartedly as well.  This is very similar to something I wrote for Kell, when speaking to a mere mortal hathran.
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Endarire

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2010, 01:50:49 AM »
Inspired by a fight against a large number of giant ants.  We were outnumbered about 18 to 5 and the Druid nearly died.  My Wizard, a candidate for Dragonbornhood, went a long way toward saving the party by summoning lantern archons.

My DM says animation is meant to be used only in times of "dire emergency."  I thought, "How many party members must die for that to count?"  Then I wondereed how Bahamut stayed alive with all the necromancers afoot.
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Tonymitsu

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2010, 01:54:14 AM »
Amusing. :)

Although your wizard has some interesting perceptions on what constitutes acceptable behavior for paladinhood.

Solo

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2010, 02:20:46 AM »

My Master Spellthief and his 177 dominated harem of sorceresses disagrees with you :P

I wasn't aware that spellthieves were wizards.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Hijax

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2010, 04:26:07 AM »

My Master Spellthief and his 177 dominated harem of sorceresses disagrees with you :P

I wasn't aware that spellthieves were wizards.
he uses wizard as the base casting class.
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Akkristor

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2010, 05:04:40 AM »
Only two things matter in this world:  Power, in as great a concentration as one can muster, and Style.  And in a pinch, Style can slide.
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Senevri

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2010, 05:35:50 AM »
Huh. 'Animate Dead' has 'Evil' Descriptor. :/

I could see it being evil, but... not merely in the circumstances as defined in the spell description.
Maybe black onyxes only have a value of 100gp if they're given a dark blessing in a ritual where the innocent are tortured?
But then, would using such an onyx be an evil act if you're not involved in it's creation?
Uh. Aren't negative and positive energy supposed to be alignment-neutral?

Solo

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2010, 05:56:13 AM »
He uses wizard as the base casting class.
Then why not just say "wizard"?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 06:11:55 AM by Solo »

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Tonymitsu

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2010, 06:04:17 AM »
Huh. 'Animate Dead' has 'Evil' Descriptor. :/

I could see it being evil, but... not merely in the circumstances as defined in the spell description.
Maybe black onyxes only have a value of 100gp if they're given a dark blessing in a ritual where the innocent are tortured?
But then, would using such an onyx be an evil act if you're not involved in it's creation?
Uh. Aren't negative and positive energy supposed to be alignment-neutral?


Animating the dead by definition is always an evil act.

From a practical real-word standpoint it involves the desecration of a corpse, which is a crime in most forward-thinking countries.

Solo

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2010, 06:11:34 AM »
Unless you have permission from the deceased to handle the body in such a way.

Or if, I suppose, there was an emergency in which undead hordes were required to go save orphanages.

But only then.

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Negative Zero

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2010, 08:11:07 AM »
Unless you have permission from the deceased to handle the body in such a way.

Or if, I suppose, there was an emergency in which undead hordes were required to go save orphanages.

But only then.

What if an orphanage was about to be attacked by Orcs, and you had to kill half of the orphans to make them into undead so they could save the other orphans?

Also, straight from the PHB, page 160: Even if a cleric is neutral, channeling positive energy is a good act and channeling negative energy is evil.

Hijax

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2010, 08:23:55 AM »
Unless you have permission from the deceased to handle the body in such a way.

Or if, I suppose, there was an emergency in which undead hordes were required to go save orphanages.

But only then.

What if an orphanage was about to be attacked by Orcs, and you had to kill half of the orphans to make them into undead so they could save the other orphans?

Also, straight from the PHB, page 160: Even if a cleric is neutral, channeling positive energy is a good act and channeling negative energy is evil.

Also, straight from the brilliantgameologists boards: Wotc are masters of contradictions. Energons are always neutral, for example.

therefore, it is up to the individual to pick the version they choose. I choose neutral, because it makes the most sense.
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Tonymitsu

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2010, 12:55:32 PM »
Unless you have permission from the deceased to handle the body in such a way.


lol, Oh yes, I can see that working out just fine.  :P


Cleric:  "Excuse me.  I know this is a difficult time for you but I must speak to you about your late husband.  This is difficult to understand, but I may require his help in preventing any more deaths from this siege of orcs."

Widow:  "I understand, milord.  It's what my husband would have wanted.  Knowing that his spirit will be with me still is more comfort than I could ask for."

Cleric:  "...Uh... actually I just wanted to pull his skeleton out of his flesh to create a mindless instrument of my will that I could easily use as a diversionary sacrifice if necessary..."

Widow:   :blink

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2010, 01:03:26 PM »
Huh. 'Animate Dead' has 'Evil' Descriptor. :/

I could see it being evil, but... not merely in the circumstances as defined in the spell description.
Maybe black onyxes only have a value of 100gp if they're given a dark blessing in a ritual where the innocent are tortured?
But then, would using such an onyx be an evil act if you're not involved in it's creation?
Uh. Aren't negative and positive energy supposed to be alignment-neutral?


Animating the dead by definition is always an evil act.

From a practical real-word standpoint it involves the desecration of a corpse, which is a crime in most backward-thinking countries.
Fixéd. The person isn't there anymore; just an inanimate pile of meat and bones, after all.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 01:05:08 PM by Lycanthromancer »
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2010, 01:09:55 PM »
He uses wizard as the base casting class.
Then why not just say "wizard"?

Because just saying "wizard" does not do a 177 CL justice :P  If I drop the Spellthief bomb everyone expects shenanigans, especially from me.
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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2010, 01:11:36 PM »
A better method would the way the dustmen did it in planescape torment, pay people a couple GP for the use of their body after they die. With the option to buy back their body at any point. So it is the person in question who gave permission to use their body. Really with the money you will save fighting off adventurers trying to kill you it is likely you would profit off a set up like this. It is a long term solution however so it works best if you have some method of becoming undead yourself.

Prime32

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Re: Practicality Is Not Evil And I Shall Not Recant
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2010, 01:12:15 PM »
Unless you have permission from the deceased to handle the body in such a way.


lol, Oh yes, I can see that working out just fine.  :P


Cleric:  "Excuse me.  I know this is a difficult time for you but I must speak to you about your late husband.  This is difficult to understand, but I may require his help in preventing any more deaths from this siege of orcs."

Widow:  "I understand, milord.  It's what my husband would have wanted.  Knowing that his spirit will be with me still is more comfort than I could ask for."

Cleric:  "...Uh... actually I just wanted to pull his skeleton out of his flesh to create a mindless instrument of my will that I could easily use as a diversionary sacrifice if necessary..."

Widow:   :blink
That's why you offer healing at a discount, but require them to sign a contract first.
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The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]