So your assumptions are slanted to getting the most out of the wizards abilities, not the non casters? I see a little DM fiat BS right here.
No, I'm saying that it is impossible to actually use the spell to its fullest potential if the guy attacking the mage is a PC. I'm not even saying that we shouldn't run it that way, and in fact the original challenge was set up so that the wizard was basically an NPC. He was statted fully ahead of time, and the attacker could actually know basically all of his tricks. You can still use the spell to devastating potential, just not to the same potential that an actual PC wizard could in a real game against NPCs. The spell is even more powerful in the hands of a PC than an NPC, without DM fiat/intervention.
So your assumptions are slanted to getting the most out of the wizards abilities, not the non casters? I see a little DM fiat BS right here.
Dude... what are you even talking about? Are you even actually responding to what I've written, or just posting stuff that you feel like saying? The wizard in the earlier thread was being handled as an NPC, and the PC challenger gets to look at his character sheet ahead of time. How could that possibly be me being biased, or the DM being biased? If anything, we're deliberately hamstringing the wizard here, just to give the other guy a chance. So yeah... I guess we're biased... in favor of the anti-mage.
So now all we have to figure out what it takes for a player to exploit "On rare occasions, this divination may be blocked by an act of certain deities or forces." It is not as if the cost of such a block is high. Some have suggested Miracle. Perhaps a Gate to trade with a "force" that can file the paperwork. Winning a service from an serviceable entity. An assassination of said Wizard might be viewed favorably by the god of such an act. Have you no suggestions for what would be a fair price?
There are plenty of cases and builds where favors are assumed done. But just not for the "Not A Wizard"?
If PunPun is assumed to find what is needed can we not assume others can to?
The steps to become pun pun are explicitly following the rules as written. There is no guestimation, or leaps of logic, or DM whim involved. You can become Pun Pun by just using the rules exactly as they are written. (With the possible exception of the crap that lets you do it at first level, but that's not necessary at all. It just lets you do it
earlier.)
What you're talking about is working things out via roleplaying that have nothing to do with the actual game mechanics. There is no mechanism laid out in the game mechanics that allows you to block COP. How COP works is explicitly laid out in the game mechanics, but the method of blocking it is not. So the only way to use it in a completely "sterile" fashion that does not involve individual DM whims is to just allow it to work as written.
In a real game, I'd have no problem at all if the PCs petitioned some god to block the divinations of the BBEG wizard, or vice versa, saying that an NPC who wants to assault the PC wizard had done the same. I wouldn't do that regularly, unless a main theme of the plot involved the PCs trying to thwart the machinations of a god, but I don't see anything wrong with doing it occasionally. It would be something entirely driven by the "plot", though, and not the game mechanics. There is a big difference when you're talking about hypothetical comparisons about the relative power of a given class. Those kinds of "plot devices" should never enter into the discussion, as they have no basis in the game mechanics at all, and hypothetical discussions are pretty much by definition about the game mechanics.
Wow... this thread is nuts. By the time I can type up a response, there have already been like 7 replies. Nothing like a "wizard vs. fighter" thread to rile everyone up.
Anyone else remember how many of these fuckers there were on 339? And I think all of them wound up getting locked, except Meyer's "Overpowered Casters" gauntlet.