The end of all "AntiMage" threads

[Tonymitsu]

I think we are all forgetting the biggest problem with ranged attacks here.


Foresight:  "Hey wizard, you're about to get stuck with an arrow.  Some dude already fired it and impact is imminent."

Wizard:  "...Oh."

/cast Wind Wall



what about a hulking Hurler build throwing an obsidian boulder on him?  Can't exactly Ironguard against a rock.

You can always earthglide into it though...

Damnit. 

[Agita]

I think we are all forgetting the biggest problem with ranged attacks here.


Foresight:  "Hey wizard, you're about to get stuck with an arrow.  Some dude already fired it and impact is imminent."

Wizard:  "...Oh."

/cast Wind Wall



what about a hulking Hurler build throwing an obsidian boulder on him?  Can't exactly Ironguard against a rock.

Put goddamn Force on the bow or something. Seriously, I think Wind Wall is our least problem.

[juton]

It's really Foresight + Celerity, even though most Wizards can win initiative most times they are loathe to roll it. Basically we have to find a way to make a Wizard act on his initiative order, there are high Initiative builds out there but none of them can beat Celerity. You could Celerity their Celerity however, as it takes an immediate action and you only get one of those a round (excepting the exceptions of course).

[Agita]

It's really Foresight + Celerity, even though most Wizards can win initiative most times they are loathe to roll it. Basically we have to find a way to make a Wizard act on his initiative order, there are high Initiative builds out there but none of them can beat Celerity. You could Celerity their Celerity however, as it takes an immediate action and you only get one of those a round (excepting the exceptions of course).

[KellKheraptis]

It's really Foresight + Celerity, even though most Wizards can win initiative most times they are loathe to roll it. Basically we have to find a way to make a Wizard act on his initiative order, there are high Initiative builds out there but none of them can beat Celerity. You could Celerity their Celerity however, as it takes an immediate action and you only get one of those a round (excepting the exceptions of course).

You mean the one about using level reducers on Arcane Spellsurge and Greater Arcane Spellsurge to have stored up immediate actions?  

[Hijax]

IMMEDIATE INTIMIDATING RAGE TIME!

and THEN fire an arrow in his FACE.

or, have some distraction ready. like, a cohort with an actual antimagic field on running really fast towards the wizard. celerity only gets you one action, and you have to use one on stopping the cohort(with telekinesis) or he will shut you down. or you can stop the arrow, which he can probably do easy if he really wants to. but not both.

[KellKheraptis]

IMMEDIATE INTIMIDATING RAGE TIME!

and THEN fire an arrow in his FACE.

or, have some distraction ready. like, a cohort with an actual antimagic field on running really fast towards the wizard. celerity only gets you one action, and you have to use one on stopping the cohort(with telekinesis) or he will shut you down. or you can stop the arrow, which he can probably do easy if he really wants to. but not both.

Contingent Teleport goes off, action is used on emulating Eidetic Lock, so the wizard never forgets the puny mortals who thought they could trap him. 

[Hijax]

IMMEDIATE INTIMIDATING RAGE TIME!

and THEN fire an arrow in his FACE.

or, have some distraction ready. like, a cohort with an actual antimagic field on running really fast towards the wizard. celerity only gets you one action, and you have to use one on stopping the cohort(with telekinesis) or he will shut you down. or you can stop the arrow, which he can probably do easy if he really wants to. but not both.

Contingent Teleport goes off, action is used on emulating Eidetic Lock, so the wizard never forgets the puny mortals who thought they could trap him. 

there's quite a bit of spells to block teleporting.

[KellKheraptis]

IMMEDIATE INTIMIDATING RAGE TIME!

and THEN fire an arrow in his FACE.

or, have some distraction ready. like, a cohort with an actual antimagic field on running really fast towards the wizard. celerity only gets you one action, and you have to use one on stopping the cohort(with telekinesis) or he will shut you down. or you can stop the arrow, which he can probably do easy if he really wants to. but not both.

Contingent Teleport goes off, action is used on emulating Eidetic Lock, so the wizard never forgets the puny mortals who thought they could trap him. 

there's quite a bit of spells to block teleporting.

Mmhmm, and not a lot that block traveling through the earth

[Negative Zero]

IMMEDIATE INTIMIDATING RAGE TIME!

and THEN fire an arrow in his FACE.

or, have some distraction ready. like, a cohort with an actual antimagic field on running really fast towards the wizard. celerity only gets you one action, and you have to use one on stopping the cohort(with telekinesis) or he will shut you down. or you can stop the arrow, which he can probably do easy if he really wants to. but not both.

The immediate intimidating rage trick doesn't work. You can enter a rage as an immediate, but you don't actually get to intimidate until you can take free actions, on your turn.

[juton]

You mean the one about using level reducers on Arcane Spellsurge and Greater Arcane Spellsurge to have stored up immediate actions?  

That's clever, I think Arcane Spellsurge lets you cast spells more quickly but I don't think it gives you any more immediate actions. Could you explain what you mean by 'level reducers'? I've seen ways of getting higher level slots but never a way to make higher level spells you lower level slots. If this is some trick I've never seen it before and need an enlightening.

[Hijax]

IMMEDIATE INTIMIDATING RAGE TIME!

and THEN fire an arrow in his FACE.

or, have some distraction ready. like, a cohort with an actual antimagic field on running really fast towards the wizard. celerity only gets you one action, and you have to use one on stopping the cohort(with telekinesis) or he will shut you down. or you can stop the arrow, which he can probably do easy if he really wants to. but not both.

Contingent Teleport goes off, action is used on emulating Eidetic Lock, so the wizard never forgets the puny mortals who thought they could trap him. 

there's quite a bit of spells to block teleporting.

Mmhmm, and not a lot that block traveling through the earth

true dat.

what about making our pawn's approaching you not a hostile action? like shoot him with an antimagic field arrow, charm him, tell him to go up and have a speak with you, Then fire that arrow.

[KellKheraptis]

You mean Diplomance him?  Since charm inside an AMF is so ridiculously inefficient it's comical

[juton]

IMMEDIATE INTIMIDATING RAGE TIME!

and THEN fire an arrow in his FACE.

or, have some distraction ready. like, a cohort with an actual antimagic field on running really fast towards the wizard. celerity only gets you one action, and you have to use one on stopping the cohort(with telekinesis) or he will shut you down. or you can stop the arrow, which he can probably do easy if he really wants to. but not both.

The immediate intimidating rage trick doesn't work. You can enter a rage as an immediate, but you don't actually get to intimidate until you can take free actions, on your turn.

Source for this? Because if I remember correctly as soon as you enter rage they have to make a check against your intimidation roll. It doesn't say anything about needing any extra actions or needing to be on your turn.

[Hijax]

You mean Diplomance him?  Since charm inside an AMF is so ridiculously inefficient it's comical

Diplomancy it is.

[KellKheraptis]

You mean Diplomance him?  Since charm inside an AMF is so ridiculously inefficient it's comical

Diplomancy it is.

Ultimately you would just cost yourself a mook, though.  Any AMF countermeasures would still go into effect, regardless of source.  Not to mention, all of us that are fully paranoid persist Invoke Magic, so you'll have to lock down not just our area, but the entire area a Dimension Door can reach (which is quite a lot, especially with CL boosting).

EDIT : Take a look at the mage killer war weaver I posted in the war weaver guide.  Duskblade 3 plus Arcane Archer 2 with 9th level arcane and divines and BAB 16@20, strong saves, excellent buff capability, and Dispelling Screen just like the real spellcasters use, all in all they'd at least fight em to a draw.

[Negative Zero]

IMMEDIATE INTIMIDATING RAGE TIME!

and THEN fire an arrow in his FACE.

or, have some distraction ready. like, a cohort with an actual antimagic field on running really fast towards the wizard. celerity only gets you one action, and you have to use one on stopping the cohort(with telekinesis) or he will shut you down. or you can stop the arrow, which he can probably do easy if he really wants to. but not both.

The immediate intimidating rage trick doesn't work. You can enter a rage as an immediate, but you don't actually get to intimidate until you can take free actions, on your turn.

Source for this? Because if I remember correctly as soon as you enter rage they have to make a check against your intimidation roll. It doesn't say anything about needing any extra actions or needing to be on your turn.

The trick uses 'Instantaneous Rage' which lets you rage as an immediate action, and 'Intimidating Rage', which lets you intimidate as a free action while you are raging. That's it. There's no 'when you rage' clause in Intimidating Rage. It's a free action. And unless otherwise stated, free actions are only during your own turn. I believe both of them are in Complete Warrior.

[Tonymitsu]

IMMEDIATE INTIMIDATING RAGE TIME!

and THEN fire an arrow in his FACE.

or, have some distraction ready. like, a cohort with an actual antimagic field on running really fast towards the wizard. celerity only gets you one action, and you have to use one on stopping the cohort(with telekinesis) or he will shut you down. or you can stop the arrow, which he can probably do easy if he really wants to. but not both.

The immediate intimidating rage trick doesn't work. You can enter a rage as an immediate, but you don't actually get to intimidate until you can take free actions, on your turn.

Source for this? Because if I remember correctly as soon as you enter rage they have to make a check against your intimidation roll. It doesn't say anything about needing any extra actions or needing to be on your turn.

The trick uses 'Instantaneous Rage' which lets you rage as an immediate action, and 'Intimidating Rage', which lets you intimidate as a free action while you are raging. That's it. There's no 'when you rage' clause in Intimidating Rage. It's a free action. And unless otherwise stated, free actions are only during your own turn. I believe both of them are in Complete Warrior.

The only problem I see with that assessment is that Complete Warrior was obviously printed before Swift and Immediate actions were created, judging by the way Instantaneous Rage reads.
Unless there is an errata that states otherwise?

[Negative Zero]

IMMEDIATE INTIMIDATING RAGE TIME!

and THEN fire an arrow in his FACE.

or, have some distraction ready. like, a cohort with an actual antimagic field on running really fast towards the wizard. celerity only gets you one action, and you have to use one on stopping the cohort(with telekinesis) or he will shut you down. or you can stop the arrow, which he can probably do easy if he really wants to. but not both.

The immediate intimidating rage trick doesn't work. You can enter a rage as an immediate, but you don't actually get to intimidate until you can take free actions, on your turn.

Source for this? Because if I remember correctly as soon as you enter rage they have to make a check against your intimidation roll. It doesn't say anything about needing any extra actions or needing to be on your turn.

The trick uses 'Instantaneous Rage' which lets you rage as an immediate action, and 'Intimidating Rage', which lets you intimidate as a free action while you are raging. That's it. There's no 'when you rage' clause in Intimidating Rage. It's a free action. And unless otherwise stated, free actions are only during your own turn. I believe both of them are in Complete Warrior.

The only problem I see with that assessment is that Complete Warrior was obviously printed before Swift and Immediate actions were created, judging by the way Instantaneous Rage reads.
Unless there is an errata that states otherwise?

Yeah, I went back and looked. Intimidating Rage needs a free action. Instantaneous Rage needs a free action that can be performed during other players' turns. See the difference? You can't use Intimidating Rage except during your turn.

[Azrael]

If you are that worried about ranged attacks get friendly fire...all my mages have it; no more rays, no more arcane archers with their antimagic arrows...etc