Author Topic: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom  (Read 6127 times)

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Littha

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Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« on: March 08, 2010, 08:39:39 PM »
Just starting a single shot level 20 adventure with some fun rules: Gestalt but one half of the gestalt may only contain HD and LA, I decided to go with Human Half Earth Elemental Were Dire Tiger.

There is LA buyoff so my DM has said ok to this using LA buyoff:
 1. Were Dire Tiger |
 2. Were Dire Tiger |
 3. Were Dire Tiger |
 4. Were Dire Tiger |
 5. Were Dire Tiger |
 6. Were Dire Tiger |
 7. Were Dire Tiger |
 8. Were Dire Tiger |
 9. Were Dire Tiger |
10. Were Dire Tiger |
11. Were Dire Tiger |
12. Were Dire Tiger |
13. Were Dire Tiger |
14. Were Dire Tiger |
15. Were Dire Tiger |
16. Were Dire Tiger |
17. ??????????????? |
18. ??????????????? |
19. ??????????????? |
20. ??????????????? |

Im interested in fitting 9 levels of Black blood hunter in the build and want to make use of the Hood tactics thing. This means I don't need Totem barbarian as i have pounce from my race.

 1. Were Dire Tiger | Some way of getting a fighter bonus feat (Battle Jump, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush)
 2. Were Dire Tiger | Cloistered Cleric (Travel Devotion) Time Domain
 3. Were Dire Tiger | Psychic Warrior 1 (Up the walls)
 4. Were Dire Tiger | Warblade 1
 5. Were Dire Tiger | Warblade 2
 6. Were Dire Tiger | Warblade 3 (Vile Natural Attack)
 7. Were Dire Tiger | Black Blood hunter 1
 8. Were Dire Tiger | Black Blood hunter 2
 9. Were Dire Tiger | Black Blood hunter 3 (Shock Trooper)
10. Were Dire Tiger | Black Blood hunter 4 (Bonus Warblade: Tiger Blooded)
11. Were Dire Tiger | Black Blood Hunter 5
12. Were Dire Tiger | Warblade 4 (Leap Attack)
13. Were Dire Tiger | Warblade 5
14. Were Dire Tiger | Warblade 6
15. Were Dire Tiger | Warblade 7 (?)
16. Were Dire Tiger | Warblade 8
17. Black Blood hunter 6 | Warblade 9 (Bonus Warblade: ?)
18. Black Blood hunter 7 | Warblade 10 (?)
19. Black Blood hunter 8 | Warblade 11
20. Black Blood hunter 9 | Warblade 12

Note that i don't meet the prereq for tiger blooded by RAW but DM is letting me have it due to RAI...

I need help with feats and maneuvers as i don't have much experience with ToB classes also want to know if the last level of Black blood hunter is worth taking for the DR/Magic and Silver I think not because at level 20 any weapon that is made of silver is probably magical as well.

note that due to Half elemental all those Were Dire Tiger levels are outsider HD
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 10:59:37 PM by Littha »

bearsarebrown

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 08:45:42 PM »
Soul Eater 1 is one of the best dips you could possibly have. One negative level on each natural attack. No save.

Littha

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2010, 08:48:00 PM »
Could be interesting, main attack will be with my lance but if I remember correctly I would get 4 lance attacks and then one bite attack.

I could also not take a lance and use my natural Claw Claw Bite attack but then I'm not going to get as much charging bonuses.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2010, 08:58:12 PM »
Ah, I thought you were going Natural Attack route. It's still a good dip if you get that one Weapon Enhancement that will let it deliver through the lance.

Leap Attack is a great feat, noticed you don't have that. Why Half-Earth Elemental? If you just want to make the Animal HD better it might not be worth it in gestalt. And you could spend those 3 LA on something much better.

snakeman830

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2010, 09:02:56 PM »
Remember that until you get enough Black Blood Hunter levels, you only have Pounce in animal from.

Warshaper levels are never bad as you will always benefit from the class features (I assume you'll always be in hybrid form...)
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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Anklebite

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 09:05:29 PM »
your last 4 levels, you have class levels on both sides. you said your DM would allow gestalt on the premise that one side would have only LA and HD. might want to reshuffle.
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mans0011

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 09:07:44 PM »
I suggest Phrenic Lolth-touched Were-Dire Tiger//Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Shadow Craft Mage 5.

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Littha

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 09:09:46 PM »
your last 4 levels, you have class levels on both sides. you said your DM would allow gestalt on the premise that one side would have only LA and HD. might want to reshuffle.

This is true but he said he is fine with racially dependent PRCs on the LA side. Suppose its for people who want to stack Elf PRCs or whatever...

Its only the first level of the Half elemental progression out of dragon 326 which gives outsider type +2 Str +1 natural armor and 3 fairly meh spell likes. 1 LA for changing 16 animal HD to outsider doesn't seem that bad.
Leap attack I totally forgot about and will be added immediately.

Warshaper I will have to look into, what do you suggest I drop for that? Warblade levels?

snakeman830

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 09:17:32 PM »
 You have an initiator level of 16 right now, so you won't get 9th level manuvers pre-epic.  This isn't anywhere near as painful as losing out on 9th level spells (since each discipline has 1 9th level manuver).  You can swap out 2 Warblade levels for Warshaper and still get 8th level manuvers, though.  Any more than that and you don't.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
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That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Ithamar

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 09:23:18 PM »
Are you stuck on Dire Tiger?  There are better animal forms available.
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Littha

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 09:32:16 PM »
I like the flavor of dire tiger and finding another animal that has 16 HD will be a challenge. (16 HD + 3 LA + Half Elemental 1 = 20 before buyoff)

Plus Pounce and Rake are awesome along with improved grab.

Full attack is: Lance, Lance, Lance, Lance, Bite, Grapple, Rake, Rake
Bite and Rake have +1d4 vile damage.

Some way of reducing falling damage will probably be a good idea but that can be an item I suppose.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 09:43:50 PM by Littha »

Ithamar

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 09:51:46 PM »
Be a Were-Dire Bear for +4 more STR than a Dire Tiger, then go for the Feral template.  That will give you Pounce, Rake, Imp Grab, AND Fast Healing, Darkvision, etc.  You take a hit to DEX unfortunately though.

And Dinosaurs can also be lycanthropes.  Take a Fleshraker from MMIII and advance it in HD until it becomes large.  Then go nuts... ;)
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Littha

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 09:56:39 PM »
Didn't think you could use advanced creatures as your base animal besides Dire Tiger has jump as a racial skill so I can max my ranks in it easily. Feral will give me a big hit to my Int so i wont have as many skillpoints and has another -2 Dex 

Ithamar

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2010, 10:02:55 PM »
If your DM is already letting you go nuts with ECL 20 monstrous gestalt, I doubt he'll even bat an eye about using an advanced animal for a lycanthrope.  But maybe I'm wrong.  Though RAW there is nothing wrong with it.

Feral does have some drawbacks, but some pretty cool features as well.  You could always go:

Were Dire Bear -> Feral -> Half-Dragon for ECL 19 before any buy-offs.  Half-Dragon gets you that INT back, not to mention a tasty STR boost.
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Littha

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2010, 10:30:03 PM »
If your DM is already letting you go nuts with ECL 20 monstrous gestalt, I doubt he'll even bat an eye about using an advanced animal for a lycanthrope.  But maybe I'm wrong.  Though RAW there is nothing wrong with it.

Feral does have some drawbacks, but some pretty cool features as well.  You could always go:

Were Dire Bear -> Feral -> Half-Dragon for ECL 19 before any buy-offs.  Half-Dragon gets you that INT back, not to mention a tasty STR boost.

This is true, however I would still need to take that half elemental template to increase my Saves and Base attack and I would lose a lot of Saves and Skillpoints doing this from the loss in HD. I would gain an awful lot of stuff this way though...

Suppose ill have to think about it. I wouldn't be able to buy off all that Level adjustment (8) even if I stagger it, could probably reduce it to 5 or 6 but that means I lose class levels.

Edit: Realized what would be a good class for level 1, Wizard with the Immediate magic variant for abrupt jaunt and the variant that replaces your feats with fighter bonus feats.

New feat breakdown:
Human                : Battle Jump
Wizard 1             : Power Attack
LVL 1                 : Improved Bull Rush
LVL 3                 : Power Lunge
Psychic Warrior 1 : Up the Walls
LVL 6                 : Vile Natural Attack
LVL 9                 : Shock Trooper
LVL 12               : Leap Attack
Warblade 5         : Tiger Blooded
LVL 15               : Combat Reflexes
Warblade 9         : Cleave
LVL 18               : Great Cleave
Animal               : Alertness
Animal               : Improved Natural Attack (Claw)
Animal               : Improved Natural Attack (Bite)
Animal               : Run
Animal               : Stealthy
Animal               : Weapon Focus (Claw)
Lycanthrope       : Iron Will
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 01:04:22 AM by Littha »

Hijax

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2010, 08:29:28 AM »
i'm gonna have to suggest incarnate construct maug for the base race. 2 giant RHD, one LA, and you get som CRAZY stats(and large size).
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carnivore

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2010, 02:19:19 PM »
how about Were Tiger Pixie ...... ;)

 :D

Littha

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2010, 08:26:23 PM »
There are so many things wrong with that statement i don't know where to begin...

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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2010, 08:58:23 PM »
i have nothing to add, but had to comment because soul eater got mentioned. its my favorite prc...
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Re: Optimising the Were Dire Tiger of doom
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2010, 09:03:38 PM »
how about Were Tiger Pixie ...... ;)

 :D

Unfortunately the pixie is neither a humanoid nor a giant so it is ineligible for the template.