Author Topic: Dominant Ideal+Synchronicity Nova, extra standard actions for only 1 pp.  (Read 14948 times)

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Maat_Mons

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So, would taking an AoO... prevent you from taking a readied action you were waiting to use?

By RAW, yes.  A house-rule saying otherwise would be reasonable, but how readied actions should work is a separate issue.  

Unrelated: You don't specify trigger actions for synchronicity. They happen whenever.

I am aware.  Did I say something that seemed to indicate otherwise?  

McPoyo

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For what it's worth, the sentence you keep claiming is proof for no more than one readied action per round is in the consequences to your initiative for readying section, not in the main section regarding readying. Also, don't forget the parenthetical note at the end of your quoted sentence. Grammatically, it indicates that the action specified is not any action taken in combat, but the beginning of your turn within the round. While you can re-ready an action, you cannot carry a ready through until it's qualifiers are met, regardless of what else you have done since you initially readied.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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I'd hafta have the 3.5e books, to be able to contribute to this argument. But I never upgraded from the 3.0e books. Bad aDMg bad.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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So, would taking an AoO, which is a special action as well (same section of the SRD, even) prevent you from taking a readied action you were waiting to use?
That's how the rules have always worked, even for my not terribly optimized groups.

Btw the Page is 160 PHB for the rule. If I understand the rule, it appears synchronicity is more balanced than we thought.
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Maat_Mons

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For what it's worth, the sentence you keep claiming is proof for no more than one readied action per round is in the consequences to your initiative for readying section, not in the main section regarding readying.

Actually, I don't claim that it is only possible to ready one action per round.  I claim that having two actions readied simultaneously is not useful. 

The particular position of that rule in the organization of the ready description does not stop it from being a rule. 

Also, don't forget the parenthetical note at the end of your quoted sentence. Grammatically, it indicates that the action specified is not any action taken in combat, but the beginning of your turn within the round.
with this action

McPoyo

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Out debated any holes I can find so far :)
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Havok4

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Well at least the actionless recharge mechanism still works.

Garryl

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Well at least the actionless recharge mechanism still works.

And you still get the extra actions on your own turn if you use each Linked Synchronicity action as a readied action to the next Linked Synchronicity automatically activating.
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Azrael

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Even if synchronicity does change your initiative you still haven't taken your action yet because you now have to wait a whole round from the second you use the action. Therefore your other actions are not canceled (as long as you use them before your regular initiative, which just changed). Technically, if you have infinite actions you will never get around to your actual turn because it will keep changing and you will continue to miss it as long as you chain your synchronicity actions.

Although I like to think synchronicity (because it doesn't use an actual action to ready) doesn't change initiative. It gets far too complicated in that case.

McPoyo

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You could infinitely walk yourself higher up the initiative order...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Azrael

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actually lower technically...it would go something like this

initiative 20: you take your turn and manifest syncrhonicity

initiative 10: someone attacks you and you use synchronicity to avoid it. Your synchronicity goes off and lowers you to initiative 11 (or just before initiative 10 if someone else is 11).

initiative 0: turns reset

initiative 20: you no longer possess this initiative since it was lowered so you actually have to wait longer to take your next turn now.

initiative 11/10.1: you can now take your full turn

initiative 10: enemy goes.

Now...I think this gets a bit ridiculous and goes against the intent of synchronicity. I feel like synchronicity (and any other power or spell that allows you to ready an action) doesn't cause your initiative to reset since its essentially giving you an action without you having to do anything. It even states in synchronicity that you ready an action without using an action to do so, therefore, I would interpret it as transcending the rules of normal readying, since normally it requires your own action in order to ready. Also, when you think about it, there are a lot of new rules which transcend things in the PHB. Hell, swift/immediate actions didn't even exist back then...

McPoyo

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actually lower technically...it would go something like this

initiative 20: you take your turn and manifest syncrhonicity

initiative 10: someone attacks you and you use synchronicity to avoid it. Your synchronicity goes off and lowers you to initiative 11 (or just before initiative 10 if someone else is 11).

initiative 0: turns reset

initiative 20: you no longer possess this initiative since it was lowered so you actually have to wait longer to take your next turn now.

initiative 11/10.1: you can now take your full turn

initiative 10: enemy goes.

Now...I think this gets a bit ridiculous and goes against the intent of synchronicity. I feel like synchronicity (and any other power or spell that allows you to ready an action) doesn't cause your initiative to reset since its essentially giving you an action without you having to do anything. It even states in synchronicity that you ready an action without using an action to do so, therefore, I would interpret it as transcending the rules of normal readying, since normally it requires your own action in order to ready. Also, when you think about it, there are a lot of new rules which transcend things in the PHB. Hell, swift/immediate actions didn't even exist back then...

I meant using snchronicity piggy backing as trigge to additional interrupting synchronicites, walking back up the initiative orderthrough interrupting yourself.

You also can ready actions until your next turn, not until the beginning of the next combat round.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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I thought the intent of Synchronicity was to break the game ...  ;)


Non Ardents can also do:

Synchro Linked Synchro + Aug. , with Metapower and the Torc ; and Psi meditation for psi-focus
That works.
That's 3 feats, 2 you'll take anyway.
Just have to wait for the Torc, say around level 15 without extra cheese.
Could buy the Torc earlier, from silly dungeon master.
Still non geometric loop, without Ardent's D.i. ; limited by # of psi-focuses available.

Azrael

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I meant using snchronicity piggy backing as trigge to additional interrupting synchronicites, walking back up the initiative orderthrough interrupting yourself.

You also can ready actions until your next turn, not until the beginning of the next combat round.

Yes I know that but if you interrupt yourself then your initiative is reset to just before you would go and you would forfeit the turn which is about to occur.

Like this.

initiative 20: you go

initiative 0: initiative resets.

initiative 20.1: you use your readied action and your initiative is reset to 20.1.

initiative 20: you no longer get to take this turn and have to wait until next round.

initiative 0: initiative resets.

initiative 20.1: this is your new initiative...now you can take your full turn.



That's essentially how it would go...If you want to walk back up the initiative order its easy...just refocus, or ready a normal action to go before the person that goes top of the initiative...you don't need synchronicity for that.


Now hopefully this isn't the case and synchronicity (like I said) doesn't reset your initiative since you aren't using one of your actual turns to use it.

A_Shadow_of_Life

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My question is.. with a silly Ardent, what does one do with all these extra actions? :D

Debating on a build for a gestalt campaign. Starting at lvl 25. Thinking of mixing this with Atavist to get 3 standard actions in a round. (Have to refocus as a move action same round to get ready for next round,can also use Hustle as a Swift to gain extra Move action, to move and regain focus.)

Thinking Ardent 10+/? // ???/ Atavist or some such..
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Brainpiercing

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My question is.. with a silly Ardent, what does one do with all these extra actions? :D

Debating on a build for a gestalt campaign. Starting at lvl 25. Thinking of mixing this with Atavist to get 3 standard actions in a round. (Have to refocus as a move action same round to get ready for next round,can also use Hustle as a Swift to gain extra Move action, to move and regain focus.)

Thinking Ardent 10+/? // ???/ Atavist or some such..


I also don't get how people are getting infinite psionic focuses. At least you need to manifest hustle with a linked Synchronicity.

So the maximum benefit I can see is (assuming you start out psionically focused):

Standard action: Sync with linked Sync
Move: Regain focus
Swift: Hustle with linked Sync
Move: Regain focus
Standard: Sync with linked Sync
(Psycrystal Containment: Sync with linked Hustle, maybe)

Now you have one standard action left in this round (unless you have Psicrystal containment), and three Syncs going off next round (and one Hustle, maybe). Going with the most beneficial interpretation of Readying actions that's still a very beneficial arrangement, but not nearly as good as the infinite nova for 1 PP this thread started out on. You start out your second round without being focused, hence can only manifest two (or three) metapsionicked powers that round.

It requires Metapower (linked) on Hustle and Metapower(linked) on Synchronicity, just for cheapness and flexibility.

[FAKE Edit  :banghead  :banghead]Forget this, this is what the psion could do.  Of course the dominant ideal takes care of the focus for the Ardent.[/Fake edit]

McPoyo

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[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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Yep, reply #92 just above.

The most psi-focuses I can think of for NON-Ardents with D.i.:
Metamind 10 spooging out the powerpoints.
Hustle Linked Hustle Twinned rolling +4 Move Actions out per round, only needing 1 move action to re-focus for itself.
Psicrystal has a focus stored.
Psicrystal activates a Hustle Linked Hustle Twinned Item (!!), getting +4 Move Actions but what to do with them ??
Schism mini-loop Not happening.
Psicrystal loop Not happening.
Maybe it's worth it to get the Mind'sEye-ish PrC that gets another focus ... whatever.
I don't know how sharing powers works with this craziness going on.

Schism mini-loop with Practiced Manifester, can get an extra [ ( Level / 2 ) -1 ] separate mental actions going, each a focus + blown focus.

KellKheraptis

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Just a half addled thought at 3 am, but perhaps the most efficient use of all these actions is :

A)using sense danger to ensure you go first, and

B)sequentially utilizing your actions as needed, since you will ultimately be using your real move/swift/standard/5 ft step to relieve yourself on the remains of your enemy and sidestep the puddle after walking over to them and using a quickened TK to undo your zipper (lazy mind trick...and I couldn't think of something witty for the swift :P).

Think of it as a processor with NI cores.  Each core can only perform one function at a time, but you can create as many cores as you want/need.  So long as we use our actions sequentially, we remain within the limits for readied actions while still taking full advantage of the full breadth of the trick.  Hopefully I'll have a build for all of this soon, as this thread has re-inspired my Chrono-Legionaire rebuild...only now he will be the Time Lord.  This alone means he can walk through time in combat, the Monty trick will mean he can walk through REAL time, and the right feat/PrC selection can grant access to every spell and power in the game thanks to the existence of an StP Erudite Thrall/Cohort/BoB Clone (or later my own BoB Clone).  The only real question is what do I feel like taking for 10 levels after Ardent, and can it compare to Monty (i.e. not only kill the TBoS, but the mighty Pun-pun, barring a level restriction as was placed in the Omni race).
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Archmage Joda

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A) I would like to see this build when you are done with it.

B)What is this "Monty trick" that you speak of?
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