Author Topic: Choosing spells known  (Read 14652 times)

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bearsarebrown

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2010, 03:46:43 AM »
What's Divine Champion? Unless you mean the PrC in PGtF. Then I totally don't understand what you're talking about.

Hijax

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2010, 03:56:03 AM »
What's Divine Champion? Unless you mean the PrC in PGtF. Then I totally don't understand what you're talking about.

PrC from complete divine. 9th level spells in 10 levels(but only from a single domain).
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CantripN

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2010, 03:57:25 AM »
Don't mean that, you sillies. I mean the ACF in Complete Champion for Sorcerers!
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2010, 11:00:15 AM »
The point in Whispercast is in case you want to cast while you're not inside a body (like, say, you're just inside your token), or inside a Paralyzed Body, etc. It's free Still and Silent, after all, so you don't have to waste higher level slots (and can cast your 5th level spells).
Eh, I don't think it's worth a spell known slot. I have the feats, and can use them if I really need to.
Quote
Also, you seem to have misread the Dragonblood Sorcerer SLA. It's not giving up spells known, per se. To get Greater Mirror Image 3/day as a SLA, you lose Greater Mirror Image as a Spell Known, as well as lose 1x4th and 1x5th spells per day. It's basically trading a single higher level slot for 2 lower level ones and losing the ability to cast the spell more than 3 times a day or use shenanigans on it. It IS a Spell-like Ability, though, which has some interesting uses.
Thanks a bunch for pointing out yet another error of mine. That's a lot more preferable than how I was interpreting it. :D

Quote
Thanks. I'll check that stuff out. The fang dragon thing especially sounds nice. I haven't looked at those pacts at all, nor at Complete Champion all that much. Is the Divine Champion thing you're talking about a replacement for my familiar? I rather like familiars... though I do worry about it getting killed. I was planning on trying to use some shenanigans to stick it into another body also (like a mount), so I don't have to worry as much about that.

Edit: Since I'm relying on being considered a "True Dragon" for boosting my caster level, I can't very well turn around and claim not to be one to be able to enter a pact with a fang dragon. I could however initiate such a pact with my party mates (or NPCs), and since the only cost to me is hit point loss... :D
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 12:23:53 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Garryl

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2010, 01:09:52 PM »
Speaking of which, do take Divine Champion. It's too good to be true as written. So much so, that in my home group we've agreed to limit it to +6, and it's still rather nice. Seriously, what's not to like about +10 AC and Saves? Or being able to heal yourself if you're desperate?

Don't mean that, you sillies. I mean the ACF in Complete Champion for Sorcerers!

Divine Companion, not champion. You can find it mid-way down the page. The ACF replaces your familiar, but lets you turn spells into healing (1d6/spell level, standard action) or a deflection bonus to AC and resistance to saves (+1 to both of them per spell level for 1 round/caster level, swift action). You have to charge it with spells before hand each day, but you can recharge it in the middle of the day, and you can even parcel out its uses to use fewer spell levels than it has stored if you want to conserve them for later.
It is limited to a maximum spell levels stored at any one time equal to your caster level.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 01:12:20 PM by Garryl »
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General listing of my homebrew.
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[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
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[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2010, 01:42:43 PM »
Hmm... you know, I think I'm convinced on that Divine Companion. That will get rid of worrying about my familiar dying, and it does look pretty useful. It isn't as powerful as a familiar potentially is, but it is less trouble. I'm trying to make this guy as "unfettered" as possible.

It does beg the question about what I'm going to use Horde Gullet on, though, as the DM said the opening to it will not travel with me when I change bodies... I guess I can possess one of my party mates and use it on them, if one of them is willing...

A really interesting thing about Horde Gullet on this character is that if I possess something big enough, my party mates could climb into my mouth to hide/travel/etc. :D

I'm thinking seriously about that Domain option in that link, also. That's a lot of extra spells known... If I can find a domain that I'm sure I'll cast at least one spell per level from every day, that's a great deal... Ideas on what is best for that?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 01:46:06 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

CantripN

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2010, 02:11:25 PM »
Destiny is NICE.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

Solo

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2010, 02:12:03 PM »
And what does it do?

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

Garryl

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2010, 03:10:10 PM »
I'm thinking seriously about that Domain option in that link, also. That's a lot of extra spells known... If I can find a domain that I'm sure I'll cast at least one spell per level from every day, that's a great deal... Ideas on what is best for that?

Don't forget that Domain Access also gives you the domain's power, in addition to letting you cast each of its spells 1/day. I missed that part the first dozen times I read it.
A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
[spoiler]
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
[/spoiler]

CantripN

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2010, 03:23:08 PM »
And what does it do?
Destiny Domain
Granted Powers: Once per day as an immediate action, you can grant a willing creature within 30 feet the ability to reroll an attack, save, ability check, or skill check. You must be able to see the creature to be affected.
You cannot use this power on yourself. This is a supernatural ability.

1 - Omen of Peril
2 - Augury
3 - Delay Death
4 - Bestow Curse
5 - Stalwart Pact
6 - Warp Destiny
7 - Bestow Curse, Greater
8 - Moment of Prescience
9 - Choose Destiny

Spirit is also interesting, for the granted power, mostly. Think of using this for buffs: [spoiler]Granted Powers: You may create a spiritual bond between an item you have created (usually a doll or similar object) and a single enemy. Creating this item requires 100 gp and a sample of the hair, skin, fingernails, or other bodily material of the victim.
You may cast any spell of 3rd level or lower with a touch range on the creature without making a touch attack roll by casting the spell on the bonded object. The creature gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its saving throw (if any) against the effect. You must be within long range (400 ft. + 40 ft/level) of your target and have line of effect to it to use the object in this manner.
You may create one of these items per month, but you may not have more than one active at a time. When you create a new bound item, your previous one loses its power.

1 - Bane
2 - Scare
3 - Bestow Curse
4 - Death Ward
5 - Enervation
6 - Magic Jar
7 - Eyebite
8 - Finger of Death
9 - Soul Bind [/spoiler]

Of course, other options are:
Time - http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/domain.pl?Time
Spite - http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/domain.pl?Spite

That said, I'm not sure this is worth it without Customize Domain. With it, it certainly is, of course.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2010, 04:39:07 PM »
And what does it do?
Destiny Domain
Granted Powers: Once per day as an immediate action, you can grant a willing creature within 30 feet the ability to reroll an attack, save, ability check, or skill check. You must be able to see the creature to be affected.
You cannot use this power on yourself. This is a supernatural ability.

1 - Omen of Peril
2 - Augury
3 - Delay Death
4 - Bestow Curse
5 - Stalwart Pact
6 - Warp Destiny
7 - Bestow Curse, Greater
8 - Moment of Prescience
9 - Choose Destiny
Wow... that is a nice one... The special ability is freakin' awesome, and the spells are quite good, also. I'd probably prep lower level spells in upper level slots, though, like this:

1 - Omen of Peril
2 - Omen of Peril
3 - Delay Death
4 - Bestow Curse
5 - Delay Death

Hmm... but is it worth it...? Sorc/wiz spells are quite good themselves. :D Hmm... I could take Planning, and get Extend Spell for free...

Or... I could trade this in for a Devotion... Hmm... any of them worth giving up a spell known per level? And I wonder if I could figure out a way to (relatively painlessly) get more uses...

Yeah... I don't think this is really worth it...

Though... if I go for Incantatrix 3 later, the Hero domain is great. And Spell would actually be quite interesting... It's like Mage of the Arcane Order "light". Spell would be quite interesting to use the draconic sorcerer substitution level on, and turn Anyspell (and later Greater Anyspell) into a 3xday SLA.

Speaking of which... Travel would be a nice domain for that, too. I could make Dimension Door my 3xday SLA for now, and later "upgrade" that to Teleport and finally Greater Teleport.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 05:05:15 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

CantripN

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2010, 04:54:32 PM »
Without Customize Domain or being able to use it more than 1/day/level, probably not. Some of the Devotion feats are REALLY good, but you lack the Turn Undead to power them, and they aren't worth quite that many spells known... Anyspell (and Greater) might be worth it.

Dragonsight (1xday, 5x5x250=6250) should be (1xday, 5x5x200=5000)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 04:57:29 PM by CantripN »
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2010, 05:06:18 PM »
Dragonsight (1xday, 5x5x250=6250) should be (1xday, 5x5x200=5000)
:blush Thanks again. I think I'll take the Travel domain. It has a nice ability, and spells, and I'll use one to turn into a 3xday SLA.

My spells known/day will look like this:

Spells known (per day) (casts as an 11th level sorcerer)
(D=Domain spell, S=Runestaff)
0th (6): Detect Magic, No Light, Mage Hand, Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Launch Item, Caltrops, Ghost Sound, Message
1st (8): Silent Image, Ray of Enfeeblement, Nerveskitter, Grease, Benign Transposition (3x day SLA), Longstrider(D), Horde Gullet(S)
2nd (8): Glitterdust, Toothed Tentacle, Kelgore's Grave Mist,  Locate Object(D), Rope Trick(S)
3rd (8): Dispel Magic, Sleet Storm, Haste, Fly(D), Anticipate Teleport(S)
4th (6): Evard's Black Tentacles, Greater Mirror Image, Dimension Door (3xday SLA)
5th (4): Magic Jar, Teleport(D), Dragonsight(S) Flight of the Dragon(S)

instead of this:
0th (6): Detect Magic, No Light, Mage Hand, Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Launch Item, Caltrops, Ghost Sound, Message
1st (8): Silent Image, Ray of Enfeeblement, Nerveskitter, Grease, Charm Person, (Benign Transposition 3x day as SLA), (Horde Gullet, holds 1000 lbs and 100 ft3)
2nd (8): Glitterdust, Invisibility, Toothed Tentacle, Kelgore's Grave Mist, (Rope Trick)
3rd (8): Dispel Magic, Sleet Storm, Fireball, Haste, (Anticipate Teleport)
4th (6): Evard's Black Tentacles, Greater Mirror Image, (Wall of Ice 3xday as SLA)
5th (4): Magic Jar, Teleport, (Dragonsight, Flight of the Dragon)

Gain: Longstrider, Locate Object, Fly, Dimension Door (converted to a 3xday SLA), and the domain ability (and Survival as a skill...)
Lose: Charm Person, Invisibility, Fireball, Wall of Ice, multiple uses of Teleport per day

Hmm... it doesn't say you get an extra slot for these like a cleric does, either... I'm still not sure it's worth it... At first I was thinking that I could use the unwanted spell levels to fuel my Divine Companion...
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 05:42:19 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

CantripN

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2010, 06:31:25 PM »
I don't think it's worth it. At least not for Travel. For Spell, maybe.

Also, a Runestaff is limited to a maximum of 5 Spells. Otherwise, you'd buy EVERY SINGLE ONE.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2010, 06:40:23 PM »
I don't think it's worth it. At least not for Travel. For Spell, maybe.

Also, a Runestaff is limited to a maximum of 5 Spells. Otherwise, you'd buy EVERY SINGLE ONE.
Ah crap... overlooked that. No kidding, lol.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Gavinfoxx

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2010, 05:20:53 PM »
Hey there, I really like this thread, and it has been very useful... the problem is, what about those of us playing very very squishy dragonwrought kobolds that CAN'T take advantage of all the caster level tricks and are starting at low level?  Which spells are the most urgent to pick up when, for example, you can only get TWO level 1 spells known?  Silent Image, obviously, but what about the second? Ray of Enfeeblement? Ray of Clumsiness? Lesser Acid Orb? Grease? Does it depend on your dex, what is the minimum dex to be safe getting the ray spells?
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2010, 06:08:05 PM »
Well, this thread was made to pick spells for my specific character, not to be used as a generic resource, although I think with all the valuable input I got, it could be somewhat useful for that as well. There are other threads devoted to picking spells known in general, but it is fairly dependent on what exactly you're looking to do.

Don't overlook the cantrips, though! Message, Detect Magic, and Launch Item are incredibly useful, and Prestidigitation can do all kinds of amazing non-combat stuff. Launch Item is awesome with alchemy, and it can remain awesome as you level up if you pick up Shrink Item and carry around a bunch of shrunken pools of lava/acid/holy water/etc.

For 1st level spells, I'd probably pick some encounter-ender like Sleep, Color Spray, or Grease (which is multipurpose, and basically forces two saves to get out of it!). Charm Person can also be great in campaigns where you face a lot of humanoids, especially in non-combat encounters. And if you're into buffing, Enlarge Person is fantastic for the party's BSF, especially if he has a reach weapon.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Gavinfoxx

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2010, 07:13:39 PM »
I haven't overlooked cantrips, your list helped a lot.. the problem with Launch Item, to me, is that it is a bit expensive to use to attack with, and as a low wealth game...

I was thinking of Silent Image and Graese, but what do you think of that Sticky Feet spell? In all ways inferior to Grease, or what do you say?
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2010, 07:41:26 PM »
I haven't overlooked cantrips, your list helped a lot.. the problem with Launch Item, to me, is that it is a bit expensive to use to attack with, and as a low wealth game...
Acid flasks only cost 10 gold, or 1/3rd that if you craft them yourself. A 1d6 dmg medium range touch attack is pretty decent at low levels.
Quote
I was thinking of Silent Image and Grease, but what do you think of that Sticky Feet spell? In all ways inferior to Grease, or what do you say?
It's been a while since I looked at that spell... I think I remember liking Grease more because you can also use it to make yourself harder to grapple, and to make people drop items. It also makes enemies susceptible to sneak attack if they have fewer than 5 ranks in balance, even if they succeed on their saving throws (in fact, if they fail, they don't become susceptible to SA as they are no longer balacing... :P ). Your rogues will appreciate being able to safely sneak attack enemies with ranged weapons.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Gavinfoxx

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Re: Choosing spells known
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2010, 08:16:45 PM »
Yea. Like I said. Instead of 900 gold for lvl 2, I get 74. *shrugs*.  I am having trouble getting a basic set of mundane "use creatively to solve problems" gear...
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