Abyssal Heritor feats and you; when is too much Chaos too much?

[Kuroimaken]

So I finally cracked open the Fiendish Codex today. Because feats are such a valuable resource and Abyssal Heritor feats often scale in accordance to the number you possess, I figured it might be nice to open a thread to talk about them, since they can be so damn nice and it would seem that got lost in the Great Failmax Blank. I mean, dude! -2 penalty to Swim checks for a way to be IMMUNE TO FALLING, plus Soul Reaver-like coolness? I'm practically there already!

As demonstrated by the above example, not all Abyssal Inheritor feats rely on others to be effective, so the obvious choice seems to be those with good effects on their own (such as Dark Speech) and an additional one or two that leech off those for extra effects.

So, let's get cracking on those! 

[McPoyo]

Well one obvious use is to combine the planar spellcasting wizard variant (Add an alignment descriptor to all spells you cast by losing the 10th level wizard bonus feat) with the Chaotic Spell Recall feat. There was a big thread on that a while back that I cannot seem to find, but I'll post of some stuff I've done with it if anyone minds. Mostly NPC stuff, since I don't get to play that often.

[Kuroimaken]

I believe there was a Drow feat, ACF or something that allowed you to add the Chaos and/or Evil descriptor to spells as well, but I can't for the life of me remember the name. I KNOW it was in Drow of the Underdark, however.

[McPoyo]

I believe there was a Drow feat, ACF or something that allowed you to add the Chaos and/or Evil descriptor to spells as well, but I can't for the life of me remember the name. I KNOW it was in Drow of the Underdark, however.

I know the one you are talking about, and iirc, it was pretty limited in use.

[bearsarebrown]

There is a feat in Dragon Magazine that does it for free to all spells that don't already have an alignment descriptor.

The problem is that, generally, the Abyssal feats are that great. Unless I'm missing something, which I hope I am.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

There is a feat in Dragon Magazine that does it for free to all spells that don't already have an alignment descriptor.

The problem is that, generally, the Abyssal feats are that great. Unless I'm missing something, which I hope I am.

Well, at least you can trade your useless racial feats for them.

[Kuroimaken]

There is a feat in Dragon Magazine that does it for free to all spells that don't already have an alignment descriptor.

The problem is that, generally, the Abyssal feats are that great. Unless I'm missing something, which I hope I am.

Well, at least you can trade your useless racial feats for them.

This has a pretty limited usage too, doesn't it? I mean, how many no LA races get racial feats? And won't you need access to DCFS to be able to exchange them at all?

[KellKheraptis]

My elven mages are usually native outsiders who instinctively know how to use the weapons his elders try to train him in, so uses his backstory time wisely learning useful Chaos, Metamagic, or Combat feats, instead of useless redundancies.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

There is a feat in Dragon Magazine that does it for free to all spells that don't already have an alignment descriptor.

The problem is that, generally, the Abyssal feats are that great. Unless I'm missing something, which I hope I am.

Well, at least you can trade your useless racial feats for them.

elves get, like, three or four racial feats.

Yeah, you need embrace the dark chaos.  But you're using it entirely as intended

This has a pretty limited usage too, doesn't it? I mean, how many no LA races get racial feats? And won't you need access to DCFS to be able to exchange them at all?

[asdfjkl]

Well one obvious use is to combine the planar spellcasting wizard variant (Add an alignment descriptor to all spells you cast by losing the 10th level wizard bonus feat) with the Chaotic Spell Recall feat. There was a big thread on that a while back that I cannot seem to find, but I'll post of some stuff I've done with it if anyone minds. Mostly NPC stuff, since I don't get to play that often.

Batman by SorO_Lost is probably the build you are thinking of.  A better version would use Aligned Spellcaster ACF from Dragon 357 p 88 instead of Planar Specialist.  (Trade your familiar to add an alignment component you have that is not neutral as a descriptor to all your spells unless they already have the opposite alignment descriptor.)

[Kuroimaken]

There is a feat in Dragon Magazine that does it for free to all spells that don't already have an alignment descriptor.

The problem is that, generally, the Abyssal feats are that great. Unless I'm missing something, which I hope I am.

Well, at least you can trade your useless racial feats for them.

elves get, like, three or four racial feats.

Yeah, you need embrace the dark chaos.  But you're using it entirely as intended

This has a pretty limited usage too, doesn't it? I mean, how many no LA races get racial feats? And won't you need access to DCFS to be able to exchange them at all?

...6, actually.

Holy CRAP that's awesome.

[bearsarebrown]

Looking at the feats... none of them are really that good.

Even Chaotic Spell Recall only allows for 1 + 1(per two Abyssal feats). Without HEAVY feat investment, that's just bad. Best case scenario, an Elf spends two feats (Aligned Casting && Chaotic Spell Recall) to get 4 extra spell slots per day.
The bonus to natural attacks and turning them poisonous is pretty neat though. I think those are the strongest ones.

[KellKheraptis]

Looking at the feats... none of them are really that good.

Even Chaotic Spell Recall only allows for 1 + 1(per two Abyssal feats). Without HEAVY feat investment, that's just bad. Best case scenario, an Elf spends two feats (Aligned Casting && Chaotic Spell Recall) to get 4 extra spell slots per day.
The bonus to natural attacks and turning them poisonous is pretty neat though. I think those are the strongest ones.

Wait, turning them venomous you say?  As in now when you go War Troll you can poach Venomfire? 

[Anklebite]

Looking at the feats... none of them are really that good.

Even Chaotic Spell Recall only allows for 1 + 1(per two Abyssal feats). Without HEAVY feat investment, that's just bad. Best case scenario, an Elf spends two feats (Aligned Casting && Chaotic Spell Recall) to get 4 extra spell slots per day.
The bonus to natural attacks and turning them poisonous is pretty neat though. I think those are the strongest ones.

Wait, turning them venomous you say?  As in now when you go War Troll you can poach Venomfire? 

doesn't venomfire technically work with touch of golden ice?

[bearsarebrown]

Having read the Poison feat, I changed my mind. Once per hour as a swift action for 1d4 Str damage. That's piss poor.

[KellKheraptis]

Looking at the feats... none of them are really that good.

Even Chaotic Spell Recall only allows for 1 + 1(per two Abyssal feats). Without HEAVY feat investment, that's just bad. Best case scenario, an Elf spends two feats (Aligned Casting && Chaotic Spell Recall) to get 4 extra spell slots per day.
The bonus to natural attacks and turning them poisonous is pretty neat though. I think those are the strongest ones.

Wait, turning them venomous you say?  As in now when you go War Troll you can poach Venomfire? 

doesn't venomfire technically work with touch of golden ice?

Yes, though what are the odds one of my characters could even dream of holding Exalted status? 

[Anklebite]

Looking at the feats... none of them are really that good.

Even Chaotic Spell Recall only allows for 1 + 1(per two Abyssal feats). Without HEAVY feat investment, that's just bad. Best case scenario, an Elf spends two feats (Aligned Casting && Chaotic Spell Recall) to get 4 extra spell slots per day.
The bonus to natural attacks and turning them poisonous is pretty neat though. I think those are the strongest ones.

Wait, turning them venomous you say?  As in now when you go War Troll you can poach Venomfire? 

doesn't venomfire technically work with touch of golden ice?

Yes, though what are the odds one of my characters could even dream of holding Exalted status? 

you make a good point.

[Senevri]

Looking at the feats... none of them are really that good.

Even Chaotic Spell Recall only allows for 1 + 1(per two Abyssal feats). Without HEAVY feat investment, that's just bad. Best case scenario, an Elf spends two feats (Aligned Casting && Chaotic Spell Recall) to get 4 extra spell slots per day.
The bonus to natural attacks and turning them poisonous is pretty neat though. I think those are the strongest ones.

well... think of it this way... On level 17, your elven generalist would normally get to cast, maybe three 9th spells /day.
Now, she immediately gets to cast NINE. Nine time stops, or shapechanges/day. Someone argued that Extra Slot is superior... but, it's one level lower, and still restricted to prep-time choices. You do not need to prepare your best spells multiple times, and you  get to cast your top levels like a super-sorcerer who can change their spells known daily.

You also do this a level earlier.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7150.0

It's not all that uber, though --- I advertised this as something a sane DM would allow. IIRC correctly, I initially thought CSR worked on all spells, and when the error was noticed, we started working on a way to make it work on every spell, back in '06. Getting that chaos descriptor with a feat would be really good, and definitely blows the 10th level substitution out of the water.

Just think of it this way - get 4 heritor feats and you make all sorcerers cry, forever. (as many spells on a new level as a sorcerer, one level early.) Well, except for the fiend-blood war weavers who turn their entire party immune to necromancy and death from hit point damage all day long... (could be bards, too.)

[snakeman830]

Cloak of the Obyrith and Demonic Sneak Attack look like decent ones.  Cloak of the Obryrith is a small amount of DR, but it will almost never be overcome.  Demonic Sneak Attack can be used to great effect in a sneak attack build, since it isn't limited on a number of times it can be used.  Precognitive Visions can also be useful with a few feats.

If Cloak of the Obyrinth's DR is being penetrated a lot, Primordial Scion helps you turn the tables on whatever is getting through, and painfully.

[bearsarebrown]

Cloak of the Obryrith is a small amount of DR.

It's great for low levels actually. Assuming you buy a Embrace the Dark Chaos (you don't need to Shun it ) at level 1, as an Elf, you have DR6/Lawful. That's amazing. With no feats spent.