Author Topic: An Evil Team of Four  (Read 6656 times)

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bearsarebrown

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An Evil Team of Four
« on: February 27, 2010, 03:23:49 AM »
I'm making a team of four because I want too. Because of that, there aren't any real rules, but some guidelines I like to follow in practice CO.

Guidelines
[spoiler]All flavor is mutable.
Psionic transparency is used as written, but allows some logical stretches (Magic in the Blood affecting PSAs for example, and things that +/- CL also affect ML to a reasonable extent.
No DCFS/PsyRef. Basic retraining allowed.
Yes, I know casters are amazing and win all CO, but I don't like that. A team of four gishes is strong but boring.[/spoiler]

I want to follow the basic format of what a DnD party is "supposed" to be. That is, Big Stupid Fighter, Sneaky Rogue, Arcane Spellcaster, Divine Spellcaster.

The Big Stupid Fighter
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Duergar 1/Half Minotaur 1/Feat Rogue 1/Cleric 1/Barbarian 1/Dungeon-crasher Fighter 2/Unarmed Swordsage 1/Thrall of Kostchtchie 5/Crusader 1/Warblade 1/Thrall of K +5
[spoiler]
Thrall of Kostchtchie
[spoiler]Barbarian themed class. Progresses Rage, netting me +6 Str in the end. And the best part, slowly grants a Size Category +[/spoiler]

Feats and Stuff
[spoiler]
Devoted to an Elder Evil. Weapon Focus comes from Swordsage level.

Bonus Track
Flaw    Practiced Manifester
Flaw     Mage Slayer
Evil    Thrall to Demon
1    Magic in the Blood
Fight    Imp Bull Rush
Fight    Power Attack
3    Knockback
Evil    Willing Deformity
B    Weapon Focus
6    Peirce Magical Concealment
9    Occult Oppurtunist
Evil    Willing Deformity (Madness)
12    Martial Stance (Thicket)
Evil     Willing Deformity (Obese)
15    Ironheart Aura
18    Stormguard Warrior

Domain: Magic and Hammer
Magic opens up wands, importantly, Wraithstrike wands.
Hammer grants me proficiency with and Weapon Focus with a Meteor Hammer.

Blind-fight is granted by a Graft.
+5 reach is granted by a Graft.
[/spoiler]

What it does
[spoiler]
ML= 18(HD) -8(Mage Slayer line) +4(Practiced Manifester)= ML 14

Medium size base, Half-Minotaur nets me large, Thrall of Kostchtchie finishes me with base size Huge.
The ML is just enough to fully augment my Expansion Psi-Like. Netting me, 3/day, swift action, double size expansion for 140 minutes.
Effectively, I'm colossal size during any combat I want, but don't need to be all day. (which is really impractical).

Wielding a Meteor Hammer I have that wonderful 70ft reach. And no one can cast Defensively and Swift Action Spells provoke! I make those AoO to hopefully stop the spells. I have Peirce Magical Concealment to stop stupidity. Wraithstrike helps me hit those with crazy ACs. And anyone that provokes whom I don't attack grants me a +4 to attack and damage against them.

On his turn he Power Attacks people, Knocking them Back. This movement provokes, granting him a ton of AoOs which he doesn't take, instead taking the +4 to attack and damage. If he can, he'll throw them into walls, but this isn't always viable. His maneuvers grant him quite a bit of movement options. Especially Sudden Leap(~+60 to jump with only 1 rank). Also has Iron Heart Surge, which is great for a team.

Out of combat? He's scary as shit. Intimidate at a +50.[/spoiler]

What it brings to the team
[spoiler]BFC. One of the best things I think you can do against casters. It's not great but, hell, what is? Able to shut down opponents out of turn(AoOs knocking back) and can hopefully prevent spellcasters from getting off to many spells.[/spoiler][/spoiler]

Sneak Rogue
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Petal 2/Swordsage 1/Totemist 2/Hexblade 3/Paladin 2/Iaijutsu Master 5/Telflammar 5
[spoiler]
Feats and stuff
[spoiler]

Blind-fight(item)
Weapon Focus(Swordsage Bonus)
Improved Initiative(Flaw)
Quick Draw(Flaw)
Arenai Focus(1)
Item Familiar(3)
Mobility(6)
Midnight Dodge(9)
Spring Attack(Iaijutsu Bonus)
EWP(Gnomish Quickrazor)(12)
XXX(15)
XXX(18)

TWF? What do I put here?
[/spoiler]

What it does
[spoiler]
Hard to kill. Will have Freedom of Movement persisted, will have Ring of Evasion, has Mettle, and has Cha to saves twice. Meaning +32 to all saves before anything else at all.
[/spoiler]

What it brings to the team
[spoiler]
Hopefully skills and being nearly unkillable. With Shadow Discorporation and a to be pumped Ref save, the most you can do it knock it out for a day.
[/spoiler]

Goals
Open the heart chakra, have a teammate shrink it to Fine, and bind that one soulmeld from Dragon to gain the Swarm subtype. :) @ immunity to weapon damage.
[/spoiler]

Other?
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Human Bard 1/Druid 5/ Green Whisperer 3/ Sublime Chord 1/ Fouluchan Lyricist 9/ Arcane Heirophant 1
[spoiler]Feats and stuff

Able Leaner
Chaos Music
Natural Spell
Focused Performance
Words of Creation
Dragon Touched
DragonFire Insipration
Sonic Dragon Heritage
Arcane Familiar

After items leaves me with double 9s, +15 IC, 10th level wildshape, Familiar Companion...

Can put up two Bardic Music in a standard action to really buff everyone. Could also double up on a single and give it to one person. Giving the Iajutsu Master another 30d6 sonic damage on each attack is just silly strong. Especially if I combine that with another +30 to attack and damage.
Will use that one Bardic spell that makes opponent weak to Sonic damage.[/spoiler]


Arcane Caster
Wu Jen Spellguard of Silvermoon Incantatrix? I need someone with insane buffing skills.

Divine Caster
Archivist? No idea here either.


« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 08:39:30 PM by bearsarebrown »

Anklebite

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2010, 03:51:38 AM »
an often forgotten thing about Ddoor: after using it, you can no longer take any actions that turn.  this includes all abilities that "function like Ddoor". annoying but true.
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Gilfanon

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2010, 04:05:12 AM »
A few suggestions for you rogue.  First, I would replace Telflammar Shadowlord with Crinti Shadow Marauder - it saves you a boatload of feats (dodge, mobility, spring attack, and blind fight are replaced by mounted combat and stealthy, with mounted combat already required for PrC Paladin).  Second, I would switch the Totemist/Duskblade base for a Swordsage base: it nets you Weapon Focus for nothing, shadow stride/jaunt/blink opens up multipouncing by getting past that annoying "no further actions" clause of dimension door, and you get a ton of other handy maneuvers and stances (assassin's stance would be great, as would the burning blade maneuvers).  If you do decide to go Swordsage rather than Totemist, the Incarnum feats can be replaced by stuff like shadow blade (with an aptitude gnomish quickrazor), adaptive style, darkstalker, craven, and underfoot combat/confound the big folk, depending on the direction of your build.  Third, you don't qualify for Iaijutsu Master at level 11, as you never get iaijutsu focus as a class skill.  A level of Factotum solves this, in addition to being generally awesome for a skill focused build.  edit: Ah, nevermind. Aereni Focus with mutable flavor does it. Neat trick.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 04:12:19 AM by Gilfanon »

bearsarebrown

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2010, 04:21:45 AM »
@Anklebite
I figure that the Shadow Pounce overrides that clause. Shadow Jump "functions like" Dimension Door and is explicitly called out as working with Shadow Pounce.

@Gilfanon
I went that direction at first with the build. What I like about Telflammar over Crinti is the spell casting and Shadow Discorporation. I understand that it's feat starved but I think it will work out. And I like Incarnum Flavor.

Gilfanon

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2010, 05:21:06 AM »
@Gilfanon
I went that direction at first with the build. What I like about Telflammar over Crinti is the spell casting and Shadow Discorporation. I understand that it's feat starved but I think it will work out. And I like Incarnum Flavor.

Quite right - looking it over, the Telflammar spell list is quite nice.  Another idea to save feats is to replace Duskblade 4 with Hexblade 3/Cloistered Cleric 1, which would trade combat casting, channel spell, and your first level spells for Charisma to saves against spells, mettle, two prereq feats (likely improved initiative and weapon focus), and knowledge devotion, which meshes well with your focus on skills.  Also, I assume you are not using LA buyback?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 05:23:15 AM by Gilfanon »

PhaedrusXY

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2010, 09:35:59 AM »
Something I fiddled with a while back that is similar. It could stand to be updated I'm sure, especially the spells used. I also used Radiant Servant for the cleric, but of course that could be exchanged


Elven Cleric 6/RS10/Contemplative2/Heirophant2

Domains: Plant and Sun, then Animal

Feats: Chain Spell, DMM: Chain Spell, Quicken Spell, DMM: Quicken Spell

Heirophant Special Abilities: Divine Reach, Faith Healing


Grey Elven Wiz6/Incantatrix10/Archmage4 with Wiz1 substitution level

High Arcanas: Arcane Reach, Mastery of Elements, Mastery of Shaping, Spell-Like Ability (Stoneskin)

Feats: Skill Focus: Spellcraft, Spell Focus (x2), Iron Will, Extend Spell, Persistant Spell, Chain Spell, Maximize Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell

Uses Cooperative Metamagic to Chain buffs cast by the cleric onto the party, and to make the cleric's self-buffs Persistant.


Buffs on party (all CL 25):

2 day duration: Chained Extended Magic Vestment, Chained Extended Greater Magic Weapon, Extended Heroes Feast, Extended Delay Poison, Extended Death Ward, DMM: Chained Extended Mind Blank

480 min duration: Chained Extended Barkskin, Chained Extended Resist Energy (x5), Chained Extended Freedom of Movement, Extended Chained Keen Edge, Extended Protection from Spells

Spells Quickened for in-battle buffing (using DMM: Quicken): Chained Shield of Faith
Incantatrix spells Quickened for in-battle casting: Chained Displacement, Polymorph x2 (both cast without increasing the spell slot)


Personal Buffs:
Persistant (cleric): Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Might
480 min duration: Extended Shapechange (both cleric and wizard)

Equipment needed: Loads of Metamagic Rods of Extend Spell, and Pearls of Power, a couple of Orange Ioun Stones, a Prayer Bead or two, animated shields, defending armor spikes.


Benefits to the entire party: +8 to saves, +25 to AC (counting Defending armor spikes once only), +5 to attack and damage; Immune to fear, mind-affecting, scrying, death effects, poison; Freedom of Movement, keen weapons, 30 resistance to all energy, all healing Maximized automatically, total concealment, Polymorphed into combat forms.

Spell slots used:
Cleric: every other day: 1-1st, 1-2nd, 2-3rd, 3-4th (1 from Pearl of Power), 2-8th
Cleric: at least once daily: 7-2nd (4 from Pearls of Power), 1-4th, 1-8th, 1-9th
Wiz: at least once daily: 1-3rd, 2-4th, 1-9th
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Hijax

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2010, 09:52:06 AM »
Umbral disciple 3: 10% miss chance for each point of essentia invested, and hide in plain sight if you have 2 points or more.
might be worthwile on you rogue.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2010, 10:54:26 AM »
Might I suggest a War Weaver for the arcane buffer?  In fact, if you want simple, elegant, and powerful, go for "The Ultimate War Weaver" build from 339, which IIRC was Wizard 5/War Weaver 5/Spellguard 5/Legacy Champion 5.  Gets 19 CL, 18th level progression, can abuse Grey Elf initiative and Spontaneous Divination to ensure the buffs always fit, and can cram any spell into the tapestry (persistent at that).  If you're willing to lose a couple levels (such as early entry into War Weaver, and shave a level off Spellguard), snag Incantatrix 3 for persist tech, or be a necropolitan and snag Metaphysical Spellshaper 3 for autopersist and -1 metamagic.  And finally, somewhere I have a War Weaver Incantatrix that gets all 10 levels and 5 levels respectively, plus Mindsight and the Shadow Weave, to ignore annoying things like AMF's (yanno, the REAL weave going down, which you don't care about :P).
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2010, 11:22:37 AM »
Wow... I thought the arcane build I posted had War Weaver in it... It had been a long time since I put that together, and I didn't even look at it when I copied/pasted it. Yeah... you definitely want War Weaver... along with 3 levels of Incantatrix to persist everyone's buffs. :P
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2010, 11:24:43 AM »
Persistent Shapechange for everyone :D
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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bearsarebrown

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2010, 01:13:35 PM »
Persistent Shapechange for everyone :D
I know this would be really strong but I just don't like it.  :P It's not cheesy but its... simple.

@Kell && Phaedrus
Is War Weaver that worth it over Chain Spell and Ancane Reach? I guess the ability to throw Heals through the weave is strong but I think I'm missing the point. the Incantatrix could just metamagic effect any buff to Chain Persist it, right?

And I don't know if I get the goal of that Cleric. I want Wu Jen buffs too. Specifically Minute Form on the Sneaky Rogue. Just to make it more ridiculous.

@Hijax
Telflammar Shadowlord will be giving me Blur in any darkness and Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis gives me HiPS. I did try to fit that into the build on my first try but the levels are too damn cramped.

Twelve levels are spoken for in the concept alone.
2 Petal
5 Iaijutsu Master
5 Shadowlord/Crinti

After that, I need reliable all day Teleportation, which two Totemist levels gives me perfectly. That leaves me with 6 levels left. And 6 feats spoken for. And in order to hit 16 BAB the next 6 levels need to be full BAB. If I were to accept 3 iteratives then a Cleric dip and a Swordsage dip make a lot of sense, I don't disagree. So I looked for Full BAB casters and the only thing that stuck out was Duskblade(Stand being on the spell list only helped him out). Then wanted my insane Cha to something so I got it to saves while keeping full BAB with PrC Paladin. but the damn feats....

Anyone have any thoughts on the BSF? Do you think it's worth dropping the Swordsage level to get Barbarian 2? It's a question of Swordsage 1 maneuvers vs Improved Trip. My BAB wouldn't change either. [are turning attempts 3+Cha(if cha is positive) or 3+Cha(minimum 1) or 3+Cha?]

Also, Heart chakra. Short of 15+ investiment from meldshaping classes... how can I get it? There doesn't seem to be a feat or a spell or a power to do it but I'm not giving up. Immunity to Weapon damage, crits, flanking, trips, grapples is just too good.

Havok4

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2010, 01:19:19 PM »
You might try a binder/Urpriest/Divine Anima Mage Adaptation for your divine caster.

bearsarebrown

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2010, 01:24:26 PM »
You might try a binder/Urpriest/Divine Anima Mage Adaptation for your divine caster.
What is the synergy between that and the rest of the team? I love the concept but I don't see how it could fit with the others.

Maybe a Psion filling one of the 4 slots? Can Metamagic Effect persist powers with as-written transparency? I mean, they are 'Magical Effects' right? Because that could get sweet.

Havok4

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2010, 01:35:27 PM »
You might try a binder/Urpriest/Divine Anima Mage Adaptation for your divine caster.
What is the synergy between that and the rest of the team? I love the concept but I don't see how it could fit with the others.
Binders make excellent party faces and would provide backup for a variety of secondary roles in the party depending on what is bound that day. He could help our the wizard by binding some save lowering vestiges, the rogue by using the malphas bird to scout out areas that the rogue will sneak into later, and the warrior through the various battle field control vestiges. Using The Urpriest and Anima Mage levels will provide excellent divine casting which could be used for buffing everything else the cleric list can do, especially as your character would have multiple ways to lower metamagic costs. Also if you take the dynamic priest feat he is SAD(except for save dcs) on charisma.

bearsarebrown

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2010, 04:13:07 PM »
@whoever suggested Hexblade && Swordsage
That works perfectly!

Petal           2
Swordsage   1
Totemist      2
Hexblade      3
Paladin        2
Iaijutsu Mas 5
Telflammar   5

Blind-fight(item)
Weapon Focus(Swordsage Bonus)
Improved Initiative(Flaw)
Quick Draw(Flaw)
Arenai Focus(1)
Item Familiar(3)
Mobility(6)
Midnight Dodge(9)
Spring Attack(Iaijutsu Bonus)
EWP(Gnomish Quickrazor)(12)
XXX(15)
XXX(18)

And Cha to saves twice :)
Two full round attacks per round is enough I think. Maybe an item for the Shadow Jaunt maneuvers.

KellKheraptis

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2010, 04:52:46 PM »
It takes some shuffling around, but it is entirely within the bounds of possibility to get both War Weaver 5 and free Chain/Reach.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2010, 04:56:07 PM »
It takes some shuffling around, but it is entirely within the bounds of possibility to get both War Weaver 5 and free Chain/Reach.
But my question is why. What does War Weaver 5 grant that Free Chain/Reach doesn't?

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2010, 05:02:02 PM »
It takes some shuffling around, but it is entirely within the bounds of possibility to get both War Weaver 5 and free Chain/Reach.
But my question is why. What does War Weaver 5 grant that Free Chain/Reach doesn't?

Action economy?
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KellKheraptis

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2010, 05:52:33 PM »
It takes some shuffling around, but it is entirely within the bounds of possibility to get both War Weaver 5 and free Chain/Reach.
But my question is why. What does War Weaver 5 grant that Free Chain/Reach doesn't?

Action economy?

And the Winner has WIN written all over it, saying "Action Economy" :D  Compare dropping 14 buffs from a quickened spell, combined with the 4-8 from the tapestry on a move action (potentially of a WAY higher level), and the one from a standard, and everything else just comes up short.  Besides, Chain/Reach works really nice on the enemies, and if you have a tapestry, you can use it for such while still fulfilling your obligation to your own.  As an evil party, that's even more important if you want it to be REALLY challenging.
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: An Evil Team of Four
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2010, 01:23:17 AM »
Bad guy team of 4?  Four Legion Devils.  Make the tank a Crusader.  Nice battlefield mobility :)
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