The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook by Bastian with PlzBreakMyCampaign's help

[JaronK]

Note FC1 has a creature, which can be summoned with Greater Planar Binding, that explicitly gives out 3 free Fiendish Grafts per day instantly... and is evidently quite happy to do so.  Might be worth mentioning.  Suddenly otherwise useless (due to cost) grafts like the Charming Eye and Fearsome Eye become very worthwhile indeed.

JaronK

[snakeman830]

Is there any rule as to how much buying something made from kaorti Resin actually costs?  It seems stupid that a superior item would flat-out cost less or the same (i.e., a regular +1 Longsword compared to a +1 Kaorti Resin longsword).

[Widow]

Is there any rule as to how much buying something made from kaorti Resin actually costs?  It seems stupid that a superior item would flat-out cost less or the same (i.e., a regular +1 Longsword compared to a +1 Kaorti Resin longsword).

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a

Strange mechanic.  They must spend 50% of the market cost of the master worked item in xp.  XP costs 5gp per point when buying stuff, so basically it costs 3.5 times the normal price.   So for example, a 320gp weapon costs:

160xp for the master worked item or 1,200 gp (320gp + 5x160)

[Bastian]

Note FC1 has a creature, which can be summoned with Greater Planar Binding, that explicitly gives out 3 free Fiendish Grafts per day instantly... and is evidently quite happy to do so.  Might be worth mentioning.  Suddenly otherwise useless (due to cost) grafts like the Charming Eye and Fearsome Eye become very worthwhile indeed.

JaronK

Since it specified that Sibriexes craft their graft I am going to add this. I already quoted it in the things to be added section and will decide where to put it later. Also you might want to add this to the Fun Finds thread.

[Talore]

Is there any rule as to how much buying something made from kaorti Resin actually costs?  It seems stupid that a superior item would flat-out cost less or the same (i.e., a regular +1 Longsword compared to a +1 Kaorti Resin longsword).

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a

Strange mechanic.  They must spend 50% of the market cost of the master worked item in xp.  XP costs 5gp per point when buying stuff, so basically it costs 3.5 times the normal price.   So for example, a 320gp weapon costs:

160xp for the master worked item or 1,200 gp (320gp + 5x160)

That's really weird, and I'm also reall bad at math. So what would a +1 resin longsword cost? What would a +2 resin longsword cost?

[jojolagger]

That's really weird, and I'm also reall bad at math. So what would a +1 resin longsword cost? What would a +2 resin longsword cost?

The weird cost doesn't apply to the magic part, only the non-magic cost.
The Base cost for a resin longsword is 1102.5 gp. +1 for a weapon is worth 2000, so a +1 Resin Longsword is worth 3102.5 gp. +2 is worth 8000, so a +2 Resin Longsword is worth 9102.5 gp.

[snakeman830]

That's really weird, and I'm also reall bad at math. So what would a +1 resin longsword cost? What would a +2 resin longsword cost?

The weird cost doesn't apply to the magic part, only the non-magic cost.
The Base cost for a resin longsword is 1102.5 gp. +1 for a weapon is worth 2000, so a +1 Resin Longsword is worth 3102.5 gp. +2 is worth 8000, so a +2 Resin Longsword is worth 9102.5 gp.

Resin weapons cost less to enchant than normal weapons, up to 65% less.

[awaken DM golem]

2,000 XP, not the caster. If more experience points are required to cast the spell, the caster provides them. As a special use of the rod, the caster can substitute the power inherent in the rod for the experience point development cost of an epic spell. Doing so drains all the power from the rod, rendering it useless.
Caster Level: 21st; Prerequisites: Craft Rod, Craft Epic Rod; Market Price: 650,000 gp; Cost to Create: 325,000 gp + 26,000 XP.

[Bastian]

2,000 XP, not the caster. If more experience points are required to cast the spell, the caster provides them. As a special use of the rod, the caster can substitute the power inherent in the rod for the experience point development cost of an epic spell. Doing so drains all the power from the rod, rendering it useless.
Caster Level: 21st; Prerequisites: Craft Rod, Craft Epic Rod; Market Price: 650,000 gp; Cost to Create: 325,000 gp + 26,000 XP.

I never really intended to add epic things but now that you mention it, I should probably add them for the sake of completeness. As for divine rank 1+, if I am mentioning epic material, I might as well mention it.

How does the Rod of Excellent Magic help during crafting? It specifies that it only works for spells that have an experience component.

[Bastian]

Added JaronK's shuriken trick and some of DM golem's epic suggestions.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

How does the Rod of Excellent Magic help during crafting? It specifies that it only works for spells that have an experience component.

Scroll of wish with 2000 xp invested, for instance.

[Bastian]

How does the Rod of Excellent Magic help during crafting? It specifies that it only works for spells that have an experience component.

Scroll of wish with 2000 xp invested, for instance.

When making a scroll, the spell is not cast (which is what is required by the Rod). The spell is triggered by writing the scroll, not by casting it. In fact it specifies "that spell slot is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast" thus stating that no spell was cast.

Note: Only the spell slot being missing is "just as if" it had been cast, nothing else is just like a spell being cast meaning you can't use the "just as if" wording to say that it counts for the Rod's purposes.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

How does the Rod of Excellent Magic help during crafting? It specifies that it only works for spells that have an experience component.

Scroll of wish with 2000 xp invested, for instance.

When making a scroll, the spell is not cast (which is what is required by the Rod). The spell is triggered by writing the scroll, not by casting it. In fact it specifies "that spell slot is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast" thus stating that no spell was cast.

Note: Only the spell slot being missing is "just as if" it had been cast, nothing else is just like a spell being cast meaning you can't use the "just as if" wording to say that it counts for the Rod's purposes.

Yes, but

Since you have the rod, casting the spell would not reduce your XP total.

[Bastian]

How does the Rod of Excellent Magic help during crafting? It specifies that it only works for spells that have an experience component.

Scroll of wish with 2000 xp invested, for instance.

When making a scroll, the spell is not cast (which is what is required by the Rod). The spell is triggered by writing the scroll, not by casting it. In fact it specifies "that spell slot is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast" thus stating that no spell was cast.

Note: Only the spell slot being missing is "just as if" it had been cast, nothing else is just like a spell being cast meaning you can't use the "just as if" wording to say that it counts for the Rod's purposes.

Yes, but

Since you have the rod, casting the spell would not reduce your XP total.

That is an interesting interpretation and one I'm going to have to think about for a while.

[awaken DM golem]

TML's got it.



Yeah, I mean Epic or Deities is getting way off the wagon trail,
but if Crafting gets all the way down to almost Zero ...
it's in the same category.

[Nox_Noctis]

If this has been stated, I apologize.

But note that the Blazing Forge (noted in the first post) is absolutely amazing. Since it reduces the costs of masterwork items by 50%, it also reduces the costs of all magic arms and armor by 50% since "All magic weapons are also masterwork weapons, but their masterwork bonus on attack rolls does not stack with their enhancement bonus on attack rolls."

If you want to craft weapons and armor, it's a well-worthy feat (Planar Touchstone keyed to the Blazing Forge).

[Lokiyn]

Obviously the benefit is greatest for items based on 2nd level effects, but it still provides a small noticeable savings as shown below

1st   0.0%
2nd   33.3%
3rd   20.0%
4th   14.3%
5th   11.1%
6th   9.1%
7th   7.7%
8th   6.7%
9th   5.9%


The only other thing i might add is that although you have the pieces in place, you don't seem to have factored in the important key that Enhance item is an [item creation] feat, which serves us well when combined with the Magical Artisan Feat. Example Below

Feats					Time	Gold	XP		Time	Gold	XP
1	Exceptional Artisan (Time)				075	1	1		075	1	1
2		Enhance Item			1	1	1		075	1	1
3			Magical Artisan		075	075	075		05625	075	075
4		Magical Artisan			075	075	075		0421875	05625	05625
5	Legendary Artisan (Xp)				1	1	075		0421875	05625	0421875
6		Enhance Item			1	1	1		0421875	05625	0421875
7			Magical Artisan		075	075	075		0316406	0421875	0316406
8		Magical Artisan			075	075	075		0237305	0316406	0237305
9	Extraordinary Artisan (Gp)				1	075	1		0237305	0237305	0237305
10		Enhance Item			1	1	1		0237305	0237305	0237305
11			Magical Artisan		075	075	075		0177979	0177979	0177979
12		Magical Artisan			075	075	075		0133484	0133484	0133484
13	Specific Item Creation Feat				1	1	1		0133484	0133484	0133484
14		Enhance Item			1	1	1		0133484	0133484	0133484
15			Magical Artisan		075	075	075		0100113	0100113	0100113
16		Magical Artisan			075	075	075		00.75085	00.75085	00.75085

Which then adding the some of the other listed reductions, say

Specific Skill Requirement
Specific Class or Alignment
Apprentice, Craftsman
Colossal Elemental Binding
Favored in Guild
Bulky but Technically Removable (SBG, Pg 70)
Darkspire College
Extract Demon Essence
Quick Crafting (Maester)

We Get the final numbers of

2.37% Time; 1.46% Gold; 2.13% Xp

Double that for normal items, Halve that for immobile items, Quarter that for rune circle versions of items on a 5ft square. As a partial maximum General Reduction, before adding in all the specific modifiers or a couple of the generals i didn't toss in.

[Bastian]

If this has been stated, I apologize.

But note that the Blazing Forge (noted in the first post) is absolutely amazing. Since it reduces the costs of masterwork items by 50%, it also reduces the costs of all magic arms and armor by 50% since "All magic weapons are also masterwork weapons, but their masterwork bonus on attack rolls does not stack with their enhancement bonus on attack rolls."

If you want to craft weapons and armor, it's a well-worthy feat (Planar Touchstone keyed to the Blazing Forge).

It has been stated before (it's in the mundane price section with an exploit column) but there is no need to apologize.

Edit: Added Rod of Excellent Magic.

[Bastian]

Obviously the benefit is greatest for items based on 2nd level effects, but it still provides a small noticeable savings as shown below

1st   0.0%
2nd   33.3%
3rd   20.0%
4th   14.3%
5th   11.1%
6th   9.1%
7th   7.7%
8th   6.7%
9th   5.9%


The only other thing i might add is that although you have the pieces in place, you don't seem to have factored in the important key that Enhance item is an [item creation] feat, which serves us well when combined with the Magical Artisan Feat. Example Below

Feats					Time	Gold	XP		Time	Gold	XP
1	Exceptional Artisan (Time)				075	1	1		075	1	1
2		Enhance Item			1	1	1		075	1	1
3			Magical Artisan		075	075	075		05625	075	075
4		Magical Artisan			075	075	075		0421875	05625	05625
5	Legendary Artisan (Xp)				1	1	075		0421875	05625	0421875
6		Enhance Item			1	1	1		0421875	05625	0421875
7			Magical Artisan		075	075	075		0316406	0421875	0316406
8		Magical Artisan			075	075	075		0237305	0316406	0237305
9	Extraordinary Artisan (Gp)				1	075	1		0237305	0237305	0237305
10		Enhance Item			1	1	1		0237305	0237305	0237305
11			Magical Artisan		075	075	075		0177979	0177979	0177979
12		Magical Artisan			075	075	075		0133484	0133484	0133484
13	Specific Item Creation Feat				1	1	1		0133484	0133484	0133484
14		Enhance Item			1	1	1		0133484	0133484	0133484
15			Magical Artisan		075	075	075		0100113	0100113	0100113
16		Magical Artisan			075	075	075		00.75085	00.75085	00.75085

Which then adding the some of the other listed reductions, say

Specific Skill Requirement
Specific Class or Alignment
Apprentice, Craftsman
Colossal Elemental Binding
Favored in Guild
Bulky but Technically Removable (SBG, Pg 70)
Darkspire College
Extract Demon Essence
Quick Crafting (Maester)

We Get the final numbers of

2.37% Time; 1.46% Gold; 2.13% Xp

Double that for normal items, Halve that for immobile items, Quarter that for rune circle versions of items on a 5ft square. As a partial maximum General Reduction, before adding in all the specific modifiers or a couple of the generals i didn't toss in.

I'm going to be honest with you, I have no idea who you are talking to, what topic you are addressing, or even what you are saying about that topic. The only thing I can tell is that you seem to be under the misconception that feats can be applied more than once.

[jojolagger]

I'm going to be honest with you, I have no idea who you are talking to, what topic you are addressing, or even what you are saying about that topic. The only thing I can tell is that you seem to be under the misconception that feats can be applied more than once.

Actually, the idea of putting magical artisan on Enhance Item is there, and good.