Author Topic: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish  (Read 8380 times)

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TangoZilla

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Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« on: February 24, 2010, 07:14:06 PM »

KellKheraptis

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2010, 07:17:49 PM »
Well, assuming it isn't banned, a Polymorph spell is almost manditory IMO.  It duplicates more spells than that list will ever come close to seeing :D
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Solo

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2010, 07:18:27 PM »
Smiting Spell?

"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2010, 07:19:06 PM »
polymorph chain is super helpful for melee, particularly draconic polymorph. Remember just because you can use it to destroy the world doesn't mean you have to.
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CantripN

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2010, 05:52:32 AM »
Try this, instead:
Race: Dream Dwarf (+2 CON, -2 DEX).
Using a pretty standard build here:
Paladin2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion4/Sacred Exorcist 1/Abjurant Champion +1/Runesmith 5/Sacred Exorcist +2
1 Law Devotion
3 Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
6 Combat Casting
9 Arcane Strike
12 Scribe Scroll
15 Elder Giant Magic
18 Supernatural Transformation (Limited Wish)
Heroics - Combat PanacheBurning RageBlade of BloodDragonskinGiant's WrathThunderlanceHeart of EarthArcane FusionFreezing FogArcane Spellsurge

It is not optimal, but it's a step in the right direction.
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GawainBS

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2010, 07:33:40 AM »
Replace Draconic Might with Draconic Polymorph. It really is a must. Some version of the Bite of the XYZ is also useful.

TangoZilla

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2010, 02:07:40 PM »
Polymorph spells aren't exactly banned, but generally frowned upon by the DM for at least their potential abuse. I otherwise would definitely be taking Draconic Polymorph :D I think a 'Bite of the Wereanimal' spell might make up for some of the loss of polymorph though. Any clever ways to make something like that a swift action?

@CantripN- That's a bunch of great suggestions I have to look into, much appreciated! I can't seem to find Burning Rage or Blade of Blood though, even though they sound very familiar (especially Blade of Blood =/)

Anklebite

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2010, 02:12:45 PM »
Polymorph spells aren't exactly banned, but generally frowned upon by the DM for at least their potential abuse. I otherwise would definitely be taking Draconic Polymorph :D I think a 'Bite of the Wereanimal' spell might make up for some of the loss of polymorph though. Any clever ways to make something like that a swift action?

@CantripN- That's a bunch of great suggestions I have to look into, much appreciated! I can't seem to find Burning Rage or Blade of Blood though, even though they sound very familiar (especially Blade of Blood =/)
arcane spellsurge will let you swift action wereanimal yourself.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2010, 02:16:19 PM »
Polymorph spells aren't exactly banned, but generally frowned upon by the DM for at least their potential abuse. I otherwise would definitely be taking Draconic Polymorph :D I think a 'Bite of the Wereanimal' spell might make up for some of the loss of polymorph though. Any clever ways to make something like that a swift action?

@CantripN- That's a bunch of great suggestions I have to look into, much appreciated! I can't seem to find Burning Rage or Blade of Blood though, even though they sound very familiar (especially Blade of Blood =/)
arcane spellsurge will let you swift action wereanimal yourself.

Also, if he's letting Arcane Spellsurge in, you have a case for Polymorph for melee forms.  Also, if he's worried about abuse, kindly remind him an Incantatrix can stop time indefinitely.  As in fuck you greater deities, I win, because I have the time to make a way to win.  Just sayin'...
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CantripN

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2010, 02:18:24 PM »
This should be of use finding spells: http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndLive/FindSpell.php

Those 2 spells are in PHB2 or Complete Mage.

Also, I gotta say that while CHA to Saves is nice, you'll only have what, a +4 to +8 at most levels you play in? You're better off without levels in Paladin. In Gestalt or when you have a MUCH higher Charisma, that's not the case, but in a normal game, full casting is much better.

From the 1 7th level spell, I'm taking you're starting at level 14, so a likely CHA is 18 + 3 (Level) + 6 (Item) = 27. That's only a +8 Mod.
A level in Prestige Bard would get you Sirine's Grace (Bard 4), Inner Beauty (Bard 4), Snowsong (Bard 6) and Nixie's Grace (Bard 6) among the other great bard spells, and those alone are worth +10 CHA, +14 DEX, +2 WIS, +13 Deflection to AC, +4 Morale to Attack, Fast Healing 1, +1d6 Cold Damage with Melee attacks, DR 5/Cold Iron. I say go with this PrC and keep full casting otherwise. If you need the BAB, use spells and items.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 02:34:13 PM by CantripN »
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TangoZilla

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2010, 02:59:15 PM »
Arcane Spellsurge is probably iffy on it's allowance into the game, though to be honest I haven't brought it up yet. If it does get used, might it be useful to obtain the dragonblood subtype to cast it as a swift, or take something like Invisible Spell so I can cast two spells/round (Or both)?

I was thinking that I would have Cha to saves, some resistance bonus from and item or Superior Resistance, and Cha to a save again through Ruin Delver's Fortune. To me this sounds like a pretty big bonus /shrug

CantripN

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2010, 03:08:09 PM »
Having a Dragonblood Subtype is ALWAYS a good idea. Especially for a Sorcerer.
And it is a good ability. It's just that having spell a full spell level higher is much, much more powerful, defensively AND offensively.

See Optimization Rules 1 & 4.

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RobbyPants

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 03:14:58 PM »
Swap Combat Casting and Improved Initiative.  There's no reason to take the former at level 1, but there is reason to take the latter at level 1.
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Negative Zero

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2010, 04:07:33 PM »
If you really want Cha to saves, take Ruin Delver's Fortune.

GawainBS

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2010, 06:22:47 PM »
Too lazy to work it out, but IIRC there was a Sublime Chord/Swiftblade/Paladin that allowed you to get CHA to saves, to hit, twice to damage and to AC...

CantripN

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2010, 06:44:15 PM »
Too lazy to work it out, but IIRC there was a Sublime Chord/Swiftblade/Paladin that allowed you to get CHA to saves, to hit, twice to damage and to AC...

Going with Sublime Chord does work. Sadly, they have a distressingly small amount of spells per day and known. You can use Inspire Courage to get +12 Attack and +12+12d6 Damage, so there's that, I guess. You can add Snowflake Wardance for another +CHA to Attack, and Divine Might adds CHA to Damage, although I do prefer the Marshal's Master of Tactics Aura for that (since it doesn't cost an action and helps allies).
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GawainBS

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2010, 06:46:20 PM »
Too lazy to work it out, but IIRC there was a Sublime Chord/Swiftblade/Paladin that allowed you to get CHA to saves, to hit, twice to damage and to AC...

Going with Sublime Chord does work. Sadly, they have a distressingly small amount of spells per day and known. You can use Inspire Courage to get +12 Attack and +12+12d6 Damage, so there's that, I guess. You can add Snowflake Wardance for another +CHA to Attack, and Divine Might adds CHA to Damage, although I do prefer the Marshal's Master of Tactics Aura for that (since it doesn't cost an action and helps allies).

Slippers of Battledancing came in to play as well, since Swiftblade grants you the required move action.

TangoZilla

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2010, 10:18:27 PM »
It's just that having spell a full spell level higher is much, much more powerful, defensively AND offensively.

Well, yeah. I understand that a full caster is pretty much always going to be more powerful :D But that's getting away from the original build a bit I guess.

I do like a lot of the spells that only appear on the bard spell list. I imagine Prestige Bard is the best (only?) way to get these spells but that's another CL lost =/ I guess that would probably be a whole different build.

CantripN

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Re: Looking for help with a Sorcadin Gish
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2010, 09:11:38 AM »
A Build is just a Means to an End. Yours is being a CHA based Gish, in essence. How you do this doesn't change the concept, so we're offering options.
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